... to think my boyfriend should pay rent?

[Passive1]

I haven’t been here for a long time, but I’m back because I need some honest advice.

I have been a single mother to my 5 year old son since I was pregnant. We live in a 2 bed flat in London and my rent/bills total approx £2,000 per month.

I am now in my first serious relationship since having my son. My boyfriend is a wonderful man but I’m getting resentful over money.

For the last 2 months he has stayed with us almost every night, spending around 2 nights a month at his home (if I have been away). He left the military recently so is back at his family home, paying his mum a little rent but working for a full salary- he has no debts or large direct debits, just a phone bill.

While he’s here I cook for him, wash his clothes, he borrows my car etc. and I continue to pay for everything and do everything around the house (which is fine because I’m very particular about food and my flat.)

However, the money is a problem. It is becoming such an issue for me that I’m losing sleep. I’ve raised it 3 times this week; most recently tonight, I said earlier today “we need to have a serious conversation about whether you’ve moved in, and if you have we need to do things more fairly because I’m paying for the car, the fuel, the rent and everything in the flat and that’s not fair if you’re using it as much as I am”. He said “I agree”.
I just brought it up again and all he said was “I said I agree”.

AIBU here? Am I a cow for thinking he should have offered already, and since I’ve been so up front, should he not have come up with some suggestions/ figures?

To rebalance this, he is a really good man, he’s started helping more around the flat and he came food shopping today (I paid) but this will end the relationship if it’s not resolved. He isn’t tight with his money in other ways, he takes us out for dinners, buys treats on the way home etc. but this is pretty fundamental.

Please (gently) tell me if I’m being unfair - after all, I’ve been paying it all for the last 5 years. If you do think he should contribute, how much? Just the “extra” he costs, which is maybe £200 a month, or a proportion of the rent/utilities too?

That last update, give him a figure get it in cash and hand back his stuff in a black bin liner. Take him up on his offer of money and then block him.

THIS ^

Paying any debts, reluctantly, doesn't negate what you now know about him.

Has he got your car at the moment? Make sure he doesn't damage it - pretend to be "thinking about things" until you get all of your property and keys back - and then change you locks anyway.

"you have never lived alone so I can that is why you don't understand that nights out financially equates to general living costs. Unfortunately it does not, by any means. More so when I too pay for nights out.
I'm glad we have reached a finality here. Take care."

You are doing well OP. Don’t let him suck you in, he is really showing his true colours. I find it interesting how quickly he has jumped to anger and aggression.

Also don’t forget you have your team of 2. Whoever wants to make that a team of 3 has to want to be with both of you.

And the infant in me really would give him a figure. I would break it down for him as well because he clearly has no fucking idea at all.

Be practical now
House keys, do you need to change the locks
Car, does he have a key, cancel his insurance on it.
Give yourself a big pat on the back for recognising what an arse he is.
Just text him when his stuff will be out front

Allthewaves my DH was exactly the same, 12 years in the army and not a clue about council tax, water rates etc. The Army even paid for him to have a cleaner FFS!
Saucy underwear, balloons, flowers and chocolate don't pay the mortgage. I had to sit him down and go through all the costs with him, but he was happy to go halves once he understood.

Allthewaves

I think so too, thats why I kept saying its up to the OP is she is willing to train him and if she can see any potential in him to be redeemed

I think all this "block him" hysteria is unncessary
they had an argument
next week they can be back together, planning finances :)

The OP was resentful for a long time, he was an idiot regarding money, now they have an argument, which is normal...

they will calm down and solve it, IF there is a potential
OP is in love with him, maybe he is in love with her..... it may help

its very hard to find a decent person nowadays

Roughly what are we talking? 2k in rents £150 (at least) for council tax? £150 on food each month? Car tax and fuel £50 a month?
£80 gas and electric? £40 sky and internet etc? £40 water? £10 for Netflix etc?

So where are we? £2520?

Let's say £2800 because there's bound to be bits I missed.

So divided by 2 that's £1400.

Does he think he pays out £1400 a month on nights out?

Bloody hell OP
My DD has a room in a 3 bed flat in London and pays £1,000 per month rent,
Add on food, council tax, utilities etc and she doesnt have much change out of 2k
She earns similar to him and moved closer to work but when she lived at home she paid £600 per month.
He is a freeloader.

@pandora101 OP shouldn't have to 'train' anyone! She tried to have an adult discussion with him about it and he descended into insulting her parenting and trying to justify his pathetic self.

Nothing there worth having

I think you have tried the subtle approach and it has not worked. suggest work out your outgoings and costs and tell him this is the amount you think he should contribute. If he has any queries, you can discuss but in the meantime you expect the money to be paid into your account at the start of the month. I think some people just need to be told what to do!

@pandora101, it is hard to find a decent person, sadly OP has yet to find one. He's a nightmare. You can't "train" a person to be decent.

Your heart may be heavy now OP, but you sound like an amazing woman and mother. You are doing it all on your own and you have every right to call him out on his freeloading.

I hope that one day you meet a man who will value your independence and will happily contribute half (and still pick up dinner at nice places). That's a real man, not this shoddy excuse of a man who blames your son for his own shortfalls and tightness.

I thought he was being dick, but until his last response, assumed he was just a clueless dick, not a mean one. I have changed my mind.

I think ultimately he didn't think you were living together because he pays "rent" at his mum. So in his head, all the costs associated with your flat were entirely out of his world. Now he's livid because basically you're telling him that he's been living with you, for free, for months and, as I said earlier, he wasn't actually ready to do that. But basically, even if he didn't mean todo it, he did, and any normal person would wake up and realise that he's accidentally moved in and screwed you over at the same time.

There's no point arguing. I think it's probably easiest if you just tell him that clearly you're not going to agree on this and as it's clearly a huge deal, it's probably best if you just move on. Normally I'm a fan of talking things out, but I don't really see a solution here. You have different life views and that's never good for a relationship.

You're being amazing OP. Stay strong. And I agree with a pp - DS' behaviour might change. The uncertainty of whether this man was living with you or not, was a potential father figure or not etc may well have been very confusing for him.

Still seething here on your behalf op.

The very worst of it is that he accuses a small child of "walking all over you".

He's an adult and an ex-marine - what's his excuse?

Whatever the amount he owes you, make sure you include the extra Council Tax. Even he couldn't argue with that.

@hellraising

yes, you are right, the OP shouldnt have to train anyone. But maybe she wants to try, if he is willing to try?

there are some good results in trainings, if they love each other.... thats why I am saying if she can see potential for him to

maybe the today´s texts were a shock for him and he thinks he is unfairly accused so he reacts like an idiot..... when he calmes down he will regret it (maybe, maybe not)

you never had an argument with anybody and calmed down and apologized and see the light afterwards?
its not uncommon

I am not saying he is redeemable, only @Passive1 can tell it

OP, his texts are him trying to entangle you in a web of utter bullshit, confuse you and mess with your reasoning. A lot of it doesn't even make sense, full of irrelevant petty nonsense. He's trying to wear you down to the point where you just give up and carry on as if nothing had happened, with him still living off you for free.

It also sounds like your 5 year old pretty much has the measure of him, children are often a very good and honest judge of character.

This man is the type to approach you later, if the babbling texts don't work, with kisses, cuddles and I'm sorry we had crossed words so let's forget all about that nastiness and just carry on and see how it goes in the future. He might even chuck a little bit of money in once or twice to get you back on side.

Don't fall for that. It'll be short lived and let him know he can manipulate you so future situations of this kind would allow his behaviour to be much worse.

He is not a good person, he has been pretending to be one to get a free ride.

Pandora101 if someone spoke to me like that, and criticised my child and my parenting and said it wasn't what they wanted then that would be the end of it for me.

My child came first no matter what. There's no way I'd be tiptoeing around a partner trying to keep him happy. End of potential right there.

I think I’d have to point out that your rent, loss of single persons council tax, bills and food add up to £2000 a month and so you were looking for a reasonable contribution. I’d then point out the expensive meals you have e paid for and the Mondrian hotel (is that next weekend btw so you can cancel or was it last weekend) at £500 a night was a big hit. I’m not sure it’s worth getting into but I couldn’t help myself! He just doesn’t get it or see it does he?

The thing is, there's no way back from this.

You raised something that was a problem in the relationship, and he brushed it off for as long as he could, blocking it as a subject of conversation.

When you were clearly not going to roll over and let him freeload indefinitely, he instantly went on the attack- he attacked your parenting (a red herring), the speed at which the relationship was progressing (hadn't been a problem for him up until the point where a contribution was expected) and your generosity . When criminal offences are committed, some authorities call this pattern of behaviour DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender)- obviously he hasn't behaved in a criminal way, but he's using the strategy to attempt to put you in your place.

If it wasn't the money, it would be something else. He wants to control but not contribute.

Tell him to transfer all the money he owes you. Then tell him to fuck off backntonhis mother where he clearly pays nothing. What a useless excuse of a man.

I would set the household costs and his share in a text tbh otherwise the next poor mug will have the same old shit from him. He clearly has no clue how much stuff costs so bloody tell him swiftly followed by a fuck off!

Btw I’d go to the Mondrian on your own (did you have childcare booked?) take a nice bottle of something with you and get room service and watch a nice movie.
He’s such a wanker and you are well rid!

The only way he could redeem himself is if he contacted you ( preferably not on stupid text) and said 'I've been an absolutely selfish, immature dick. I can not tell you how truly sorry I am for taking cheap shots at your parenting. You are totally right and I'd like to transfer £10,000 immediately. This will, I hope, go some way towards the extra costs of me staying here for the past X months. If you'll accept my apology and we can move on from this I'd like us to sit down tonight and sort out a standing order for the costs from now on. Whatever you decide, I've transferred 10,000 now.' .........not likely is it?