"We earn too much for any help"

[Zootrebilis]

Good morning!

Expecting to be flamed for posting this but I need to get it off my chest. I've noticed people moaning that they don't get any "financial help" when they're part of a high income household. I've listed two examples but have many more:

1. A facebook group I'm part of: A lady posted moaning her and her husband don't receive tax credits and was there a way if getting any! She said he's on a very high wage and she works part time but he spends too much and she can't see where his money goes! So basically she wants tax credits because her husband likes spending. Another poster replied moaning her husband earns over the threshold for child benefit as well!

1. Someone I know who is actually a nice person: her husband earns 50k per year minimum (I know because she told us at the time) and she works part time. She was saying it's ridiculous that they don't receive tax credits as they could really do with it.

I just don't get it!!! Surely if they wanted more combined income they should work full time instead of part time (a choice in person 2s case as they have free childcare 3 days per week). I know childcare is expensive. I was a single parent until recently. I had to rely on tax credits for a bit to top up my wages which I hated. They were such uncertain times but I'm so so grateful that kind of help was there when I was alone and poor (my son was conceived by rape). I've worked hard to earn a management role in a sector I love where I get to help people. I earn 22k, partner on minimum wage and we have 2 kids between us. I wouldn't expect financial help in my situation so I don't know why others do! I'm 28 so I'm not of a different generation to them or anything.

Sorry just wanted to get it off my chest!!!

Well Gromance when i had my kids we both worked had a morgage and only received child benefit (which at the rime was universal) my second child is disabled i had to give up work because its because of many readons endless appointments,etc , shit happens, you dont always plan to be reluant on state benefits i know people who chose to carry on having children deapute not having a job but this becoming less and less with the cuts

Gromance02

Because that's what living in a society is. As much as you sound like you think you don't need anyone, you do and will in the future. It's someone's children that will be the doctors of tomorrow who will treat you if you get ill. Someone's children will be carers, shop workers, bin men, lay water and gas pipes so you can drink, wash and be warm etc, etc, etc. I'd be pretty thankful that there are people having children if I were you.

And I say that as someone who has 2 children but who isn't entitled to any benefits at all because we are very fortunate to be high earners.

I'm completely fucking bemused by the idea that as high rate taxpayers, you should get some sort of "reward". I mean, on top of the schools, police, roads, hospitals, and healthcare that you already get.

The reward is the money! (Oh, and the better health, less pollution, longer life, less stress, and more social influence that comes with it.) The idea that someone should pat you on the head and give you extra-special benefits for your basic participation in society is bizarre. If you don't like the tax system, you already have a disproportionate amount of influence on politics in order to change it. Why do you need the government to tell you what a good little citizen you are? Especially when you're doing exactly the same as every other citizen, except of course proportionately it's actually easier for you?

Homeishere slightly misleading comment re losing your child benefit due to earning just above 50k. As you must know the child benefit amount tapers proportionately between 50 and 60k. So if your DH earns a little over 50k you are entitled to the vast majority of the child benefit. You will receive it in full and have to return a small amount via the tax return. It's a small administrative annoyance but I can't see anything else to complain about. If you/dh can't be arsed to do the tax return, just slightly increase pension contributions via salary sacrifice to bring the taxable salary to £49,999 perhaps?

"they get access to sharesaves, health and insurance benefits"

Well neither DH nor I have ever had any of those things in any job!

Some employees don't even get sick pay (only SSP that you have to claim yourself and doesn't come close to earnings for some). I know the staff in our kitchen (employed by an outside catering company) don't get sick pay.

We are in this position and I have to say I DO have a problem with the threshold system for child benefit BUT not because we don't get it- my problem is that the rules are a bit unfair, as if one partner earns over threshold (around 55k, i think) you cannot claim, but if both partners are on under threshold they can. This means I have friends who earn around 90k as a family and get it for all 3 of their kids, whereas we bring in considerably less and get nothing.

We don't need it, but that's a bit weird, right?

I am a single parent and work part time earning around £15k. I do get tax credits but these have reduced dramatically since I first became single (also when I got my job). At the time it was definitely not worth me working any extra days due to the fact that it would cost me more in travel and childcare - I’d basically be working full time hours for the same money at the end of the day. Over the past few years my tax credits have dropped a lot. I am considering upping my hours - would mean looking for a new job potentially. 1 extra day wouldn’t make any difference. 2 extra days would probably break even on child care and travel. Full time would see me better off.
I manage on the money I earn and my top up but don’t have money for luxuries. I’m also studying so I can actually change my career in the future to a very well paid one.
I also get comments from friends who say things like ‘we don’t get any help’, ‘wish I got a few hundred quid a month in tax credits’ but their income is already 3 times mine. What does annoy me is watching programmes on benefits where some households are claiming full whack tax credits, housing etc and their income is another £10k above mine and no one even works. I have a mortgage so don’t get any help with housing. Mortgage was got when there were two incomes. I’ve managed to keep it on. When I was unemployed and the ex dh worked full time on a minimum wage we got £0 tax credits. We struggled to pay our bills and really had to cut back. I was made redundant so we had outgoings which were already committed. I was in a vicious circle with agency work and childcare costs and availability. I feel like I’m in limbo at the moment but know it could be a lot worse.

A lot of people don't realise how fucking lucky they are to be living in a peaceful society with good infrastructure and how much that costs, instead assuming taxes are some kind of personal savings account.

What annoys me is that two people can earn £49,000 in a household and be entitled to child benefit but if one earns £50k you’re not! This is especially unfair to single parents.

You can still get child benefit but pay tax on everything. I think the cut off should be £100k.

There is an element of squeezed middle, so not in receipt of anything bar child benefit, big rent costs, big childcare costs. Food going up, rent going up, cuts to services that mean they have to find that few extra quid for things now.
I think suddenly the people who had a spare few quid (not huge amounts) for treats are feeling that tightened and I think that’s reflected in the struggling restaurants and shops like m and s / Waitrose/ John Lewis.
The last down turn the likes of m and s thrives where the middle still wanted a treat. That treat moneys gone now onto essentials.

Although clearly not something tax credits should be covering!!

I agree that child benefit is weird. Its completely unfair. I was a single mum for a few years (not now) and earned above threshold so I got nothing. No help at all. Yes I came out with good money but it’s all relative and because you get taxed so much at higher rate you’re not coming out with the same as two people on the same amount so it’s a double blow. They should take full household income in to account and make it all more fair.

I think a lot of people were stung (myself included) when the new child benefit rules came in as we used the money. I work a low paid part time job to be home for the kids and hubby works in a high paid full time job. We have less income combined than a lot of our friends but because he earns above threshold we lost it. I think it should be based in combined income.

I find the way people complain about money in this country pathetic. Most of the world lives in abject poverty and yet people here are always whinging about not having enough. We earn 17k in total and live comfortably. I'd consider us privileged but doubt most people earning this amount feel this way.

@ilovechocolate07 but it's your choice to stay at home and look after your children, your shout but not one that should be financially supported by the tax payer, two full time working parents have much higher childcare bills so even earning more in household income won't necessarily have as much spare money

@Leapfrog44 it depends on where you live in the country, 17k would barely cover rent and council tax for a small family where I live and it's not a posh area. There will always be other countries worse off that doesn't mean people here don't have financial struggles

Bollocks Leapfrog, when my best mate is crying because she can't afford to have a second DC on her full time wage whilst the family next door to her are raking the benefits in, the starving people in Africa are the last thing on my mind.

Let's talk about inequality, not just brush it under the carpet. Or should we all just put up and shut up because we can afford a 20p tin of beans for tonight's tea?

For benefit purposes they calculate against household income. Not all households share their income. I worked as a teacher and wad often shocked when seemingly affluent parents where I knew Childs father had good job could not afford not school meal for child. Child would say Mummy angry because Daddy went out with his friends and spent all our money, or words similar. I have known families who were dresses impeccably but child said they could not have fruit at home as not enough money. Difficult as government would have to measure against something. I do like all reception and year 1 getting free school dinner though.

Raking the benefits in. Those words only leave the mouths of those who haven’t had to struggle on benefits.

I worked full tima as a teacher and we were entitled before the changes. People used that money to pay for hobbies and clubs, food shopping, fuel and they missed it when it was taken away. Who wouldn't miss £137.50 per month after having it for years? I work 25h per week now and as a family we pay a hell of a lot of taxes. I'm just saying that it has been missed.

I'm on the fence here. On the one hand I'm earning less than 10k a year in wages and need tax credits survive as a single parent to two children. I'm out the door by 8am every morning to go to work. I am doing an NVQ and gaining more experience at work to hopefully one day dig my way out of tax credits because I know they don't last forever and I hate having to rely on them.

On the other hand my next door neighbors are living in a 3 bed council house with mum and dad in one bedroom, their 20 something dd in another room and a spare bedroom. None of them work, no disabilities, just know how to "play" the system. Mum has a 2017 car in the drive, they aren't out to work by 8am. They have countless "gatherings " and parties and their glass recycle bin is full every week of branded empty bottles of alcohol.

There are two types of claimants; those who are genuinely struggling/trying their best/working hard and those who are playing the system/know all the tricks.

Please do not mix the two together!!!!

Imagine 40% of your salary is taken as tax and you have a £1-2K nursery bill every month (to enable you to work). And no child benefit or other help when people around you seem to get it all handed to them. Wouldn't you feel a bit resentful?

It's like the current system punishes people who build successful careers, who spend years training and paying off tuition fees then work hard at a career. Very few became financially comfortable through luck. I know lots of women who can't afford to work because they can't afford nursery yet don't qualify for the income assessed 2-year funding.

Not all of your income in taken at 40%..

Imagine earning less than 10k with some tax credits to top that up and still not earning even half the money you start paying tax on at 40% whilst being in work...

Oh dear MissMalice, I'm on ESA and PIP right now. As you were...

Tax is progressive no one pays 40% on all their income just the bit that’s over the threshold.
If you are paying tax at 40% rate you are one of the highest earners in the country.