"We earn too much for any help"

[Zootrebilis]

Good morning!

Expecting to be flamed for posting this but I need to get it off my chest. I've noticed people moaning that they don't get any "financial help" when they're part of a high income household. I've listed two examples but have many more:

1. A facebook group I'm part of: A lady posted moaning her and her husband don't receive tax credits and was there a way if getting any! She said he's on a very high wage and she works part time but he spends too much and she can't see where his money goes! So basically she wants tax credits because her husband likes spending. Another poster replied moaning her husband earns over the threshold for child benefit as well!

1. Someone I know who is actually a nice person: her husband earns 50k per year minimum (I know because she told us at the time) and she works part time. She was saying it's ridiculous that they don't receive tax credits as they could really do with it.

I just don't get it!!! Surely if they wanted more combined income they should work full time instead of part time (a choice in person 2s case as they have free childcare 3 days per week). I know childcare is expensive. I was a single parent until recently. I had to rely on tax credits for a bit to top up my wages which I hated. They were such uncertain times but I'm so so grateful that kind of help was there when I was alone and poor (my son was conceived by rape). I've worked hard to earn a management role in a sector I love where I get to help people. I earn 22k, partner on minimum wage and we have 2 kids between us. I wouldn't expect financial help in my situation so I don't know why others do! I'm 28 so I'm not of a different generation to them or anything.

Sorry just wanted to get it off my chest!!!

What threshold AnythingConsidered? Child benefit? CB is £20/£14 a week. Less than £2k a year for 2. What your fiends are doing doesn’t make any sense

The problem with those two examples isn't that they have too low of an income to survive but that they don't have transparency of finances in their relationships and there is probably gross financial inequality going on there. I'd be willing to bet that these high earning husbands either expect 50/50 household bill contribution from their wives despite the disparity and/or the wives have responsibility for all of the costs relating to children, which basically eclipses all of their income and so they feel that they are "struggling" while their husbands are obliviously spending what they like and carrying on like single blokes while being all smug and claiming they "support their family".

I would like to see a complete overhaul in child benefit.
I would like to see at least a 50% rise but limited to 2 children only with a limit claimant limit of something like £40k per household so it is a real help for poorer households rather than a means of having savings for the children.
The old system would have to run in tandem with any new system so children already in existence were catered for but over a period of years a new system would replace what we have at present.

spiralandrainbow I suppose the obvious question is why you don’t get a job and be like your jammy mates?

I've said this before, but we have a disabled child and our high income doesn't go far at all once you've covered a 6 month hospital stay. I usually moan about it when we can't get help with water and heating/electric rates all of which are on constantly in our house due to DS's health needs.

They're are loop holes all around and the ones we are most aware of are the ones people we compare ourselves with get a better deal than us.

I'm my case it was me as a single mum working FT two children in childcare no maintenance. Despite a very good income, after all bills I wasnt left with much.

It was hard not to compare with my DD's friend mum who was a single mum too, not working despite both kids at school, claiming Is, tax credit, got the house of her first husband who was paying the mortgage and CM, as was the wealthy father of her second child.

She had a very wealthy lifestyle and at the time I struggle to understand the concept of not including child maintenance in income for the purpose of claiming IS and benefits.

Saying that, both kids are now older, maintenance has all stopped. The mortgage is paid but she had to go on JSA. She hated it after years of no financial stress. She now claims ESA for depression and is desperate to find a new rich partner to support her.

I'm about to lose my CB has my husband has just gone over the threshold. I am going to miss the money tbh as I earn considerably less than him. The current system is unfair as people have said. I live month to month with no savings. I'm lucky that DH shares his money with us, and feel terribly for all the women in financially abusive marriages for who that isn't the case.

Capri

God you are such a tosser.

I did think of putting my life situation in my post to ward off tossy comments like yours, but decided not to as it would make the post really long and not really be relevant to my point..

It's a long story about an emotionally abusive and controlling relationship and yes I am retraining to earn money again so I can ltb.

But really, there are many unhappy reasons why one spouse may not work such as disability or illness etc.

Why make snarky comments insinuating it's because they are a lazy git when you literally no nothing about the person you are talking about? Oh hang on, I know the answer to that - it's because you are a tosser.

@cementpointing a teacher and a social worker would not get help if both were working full time, especially if they don't pay for childcare . Even a newly qualified SW and teacher earning around £40000-45000 combined with two children in the south East with no savings etc would only get child benefit

don’t be ridiculous and aggressive spiralandrainbow it’s a perfectly valid question following a post like yours.

She had a very wealthy lifestyle and at the time I struggle to understand the concept of not including child maintenance in income for the purpose of claiming IS and benefits.

for years I was award maintenance but never received it. under the old system I had to declare any money received. It was stressful when maintenance wasn't paid because that money was relied on.

The new maintenance system is fairer to single mothers like me where the ex just decides not to pay one month or decided to change the payment date but because its within the month its paid and there is nothing you can do.

I have read that under universal credit they are now taking into account maintenance when sorting out benefits and this is going to put women like me in a really difficult financial position because we're back to relying on exes to pay up rather than have the independence from ex partners the current system provides.

This is why I don't think maintenance should be taken into account at all. It forces a woman to become a slave to her ex again and if he is financial manipulative/abusive or coercive that woman is back in abuse cycles reliant on maintenance and being nice to her ex and giving in to his every demand for fear of losing the money.

"I'm lucky that DH shares his money with us, and feel terribly for all the women in financially abusive marriages for who that isn't the case."

We need to get rid of the mindset that Women are lucky if their Partner financially supports the family.

We have needed to change our thinking, as far back as I can remember (I'm 51), on Men who don't pay maintenance. I think we should criminalise it, as they do in the U.S.

It brings up the question on whether our benefit system should prop up an abusive relationship to the point the Woman is placated enough to stay even longer.

Having said that, I know Women in financially abusive relationships and they are better housed than their equivalent LP and their children have more.

I live in a deprived area in Liverpool. Employment, since Thatcher moved everything Down South and out of the Country, has been unstable and low paid, so claiming benefits is a need.

It's a shame they can't do Tours in areas such as mine. So how people really live on benefits, is shown.

Having a fully decorated house, with adequate flooring/furniture etc usually means that that's were all the disposable income goes. But there's very few living like that.

People don't go hungry, thanks to £1 pizzas etc. But they still are cold and have to wait until the washing machine is full to do a wash. The children, if they're lucky have library groups and Church toddler groups, day trips etc.

I can remember one episode of rich house/poor house, were the 'poor' family said that they took part so they could adequetly clothe their children, that year. The Son also got his first pair of football boots, he was a keen and talented footballer.

If you have a certain income and get in your car to shop in the likes of the Trafford Center, as opposed to shopping centers with Peacocks/B and M/Poundland etc. Or go on holiday in upmarket places. Then you aren't going to see how people really have to live and think that you are missing out.

I know people whose Gas/Electric run out every Sunday evening. They go to bed and then one of them gets up early to top up, from their CB. They worry constantly about affording the very basics.

" I struggle to understand the concept of not including child maintenance in income for the purpose of claiming IS and benefits"

What Fourrustedhorsrs said. Also, did she have a wealthy lifestyle whilst the children were in rags? Mainainance is for the children, so shouldn't be counted in IS/JSA etc. How was her lifestyle compared to the other Parents?

We are a higher income family, and although I don’t want or need benefits of any sort it does kind of piss me off that as higher tax payers we get no reward.

Why do you feel entitled to a reward Araf?!

Because I pay quite a considerable amount of tax. By reward I mean something like a council tax dicount or eligablity for the marriage tax allowance.

I guess capri in the same way that those who don’t work also expect a reward

So you want to be the same as entitled benefit claimants then? Aspirational.

Well I think I am entitled. That’s the difference! I pay tax, a considerable amount.

I understand the need for benefits and I’m proud to be paying in to that, helping those less fortunate but when I see all of these deals that people can have I do feel it a tad unfair. Dh & Inhave worked our arses off to get to the situation we’re in, a little reward every now and then would be nice.

And by that i do not mean that others have not worked their arses off.

But you’re “reward” is everything you get through paying tax. Healthcare, policing, the criminal justice system, transport, highways, border control, bincollection, schools, libraries, children’s centres, etc etc etc for ever more. It’s a bit dim to expect more just because you exist.

Araf, the point of taxation is, to a large extent, the redistribution of wealth. So, no, higher tax payers shouldn't get all the same benefits and discounts as lower income folk. There wouldn't be enough to go round.

I don't particularly care as I do alright on my own without any benefits, I'm not jealous of anyone on benefits.

Still doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion that I think instead of increasing things like the tax free allowance, the minimum wage and making changes to taxes etc. earlier they decided to ramp up the availability and prevalence of tax credits etc. which ended up encouraging things like; not working extra hours if you're only going to be a couple of pounds better off than not working or only working 16 hours or not taking pay rises or promotions. Plus as already mentioned earlier the inconsistencies about entitlement to benefits whether as a sole claimant or based on household income, which does create resentment.

The subsidising of employees via the tax credit and benefits system has been one of the single most stupid things to ever happen to this country. Anyone above average pay are being made to pay tax to gift it back to lower paid people via a tax credit and benefit system instead of the company doing what they should be doing and paying lower paid people more.

I understand that that is my reward, that I pay in to healthcare, infrastructure etc, but everyone gets that regardless of how myh tax they pay, or whether they pay tax at all.

It’d just be nice to be eligable for something every once in a while like the marriage tax. Or even to have choice of where my EXTRA tax goes, not all of it. As I would choose healthcare.

Honey I understand the benefit system and why it’s there, I don’t want to receive benefits. I just think it’d be nice if there was a reward system for those who pay it.

It’s the same with lots of things. There’s never rewards for being a good role model in society.