"We earn too much for any help"

[Zootrebilis]

Good morning!

Expecting to be flamed for posting this but I need to get it off my chest. I've noticed people moaning that they don't get any "financial help" when they're part of a high income household. I've listed two examples but have many more:

1. A facebook group I'm part of: A lady posted moaning her and her husband don't receive tax credits and was there a way if getting any! She said he's on a very high wage and she works part time but he spends too much and she can't see where his money goes! So basically she wants tax credits because her husband likes spending. Another poster replied moaning her husband earns over the threshold for child benefit as well!

1. Someone I know who is actually a nice person: her husband earns 50k per year minimum (I know because she told us at the time) and she works part time. She was saying it's ridiculous that they don't receive tax credits as they could really do with it.

I just don't get it!!! Surely if they wanted more combined income they should work full time instead of part time (a choice in person 2s case as they have free childcare 3 days per week). I know childcare is expensive. I was a single parent until recently. I had to rely on tax credits for a bit to top up my wages which I hated. They were such uncertain times but I'm so so grateful that kind of help was there when I was alone and poor (my son was conceived by rape). I've worked hard to earn a management role in a sector I love where I get to help people. I earn 22k, partner on minimum wage and we have 2 kids between us. I wouldn't expect financial help in my situation so I don't know why others do! I'm 28 so I'm not of a different generation to them or anything.

Sorry just wanted to get it off my chest!!!

@Zootrebilis You have faced a lot of hardship particularly given the circumstances of your son's conception. I'm please that your life has turned around so much. Hardship like this is exactly why I defend the welfare system, speaking as a high tax contributor.
In your circumstances, I would feel exactly the same and would also be sensitive to the (possibly throwaway) comments of others.
I think @Caprisunorange has hit the nail on the head - it depends what is your norm. I also enjoy what few perks I have received (subsidised nursery knocking a few hundred quid off my childcare bills).

Jungster I’m on maternity leave at the moment and probably won’t return because it just will not allow me to see my children during the week and no amount of identify or status is worth that to me.

This thread will go pfft as this sort of discussion never ends well on MN.

It really annoys me too. Rich people don't need help and I can't understand why they would want it, given the stigma it comes with. Some people are just really greedy and not living in the real world.

I earn 13k, I don't claim benefits by choice. I just live frugally within my means and as I've paid my mortgage off so I don't need it. I could claim if I wanted to but it would be at the expense of someone else who needs it a lot more than me. I want the benefit system to work and be there for people when they really need it, myself included.

I think it is difficult for some people earning just over the threshold. We have a fair income but until this year had 2 children in uni (now 1 in uni one an NQT earning barely enough to live on so we still subsidise them too) and I am unwell and so have to pay a lit each month just to keep me well enough to go to work.

I look at some people that I know who have much more disposable income because their children got loans plus grants at uni for example. I wonder how the figures stack up when you compare those just above the threshold with those just below?

I think there are alot of people (myself included) who have earned a relatively low income (but above min wage) been poor at managing money and ended up with a fair bit of debt without living a luxury lifestyle, no holidays etc.

Now on paper if you look at our household income we should be fine, but a large proportion of our income goes on debt, mortgage and bills leaving us to just getting by from month to month (we are now much better with money).
We don't really go out, don't holiday and are pretty frugal re food and bills.
Sadly through entirely our own fault, it will be this way for several years yet.

I do not think we should be entitled to benefits/tax credits etc, but there are people out there who seem only to look at their expendable income and that of those around them, and believe that they are entitled to have the government make up the shortfall!

I will save my sympathy for single people who are unemployed or sick and who get £73.10 a week, help with council tax and rent, and that is it.

I have 2 relatives like this. Both earn in excess of 35k/year. They both received very nice 3k+ bonuses in the last 18mth and of course they lost what little they were then entitled to in tax credits and it caused a LOT of resentment because they felt entitled to it! one gets a ridiculous amount of free childcare from a grandparent and the other has a SAHM with 5 kids and both have cars. A luxury I couldn't even afford yet. One benefits from subsidised military housing the other has had Govt help to pay for a deposit to buy a house. Again, something I could never dream of right now.

I'm a carer to my child and they are very resentful I can spend all this time with my child as well as have seemingly nice things.

We all live in the same area and I pay similar rent to the couple with 5 kids and its just 2 of us. My income is much less than theirs but I have more and they hate that I am entitled to tax credits etc.

I think this is a hard subject for all to agree on.
My husband and I are teachers (I work 4 days and husband full time). If I worked full time I would actually be at a loss due to childcare.
We haven't had a raise for over 4 years. Yet living costs increase.
We do struggle, don't have lavish lifestyles- not been on holiday this year and if we do it is camping (which I love) but can never afford to go abroad. We have 2 children.
What gets me is people who don't work that are on benefits having big holidays and lavish lifestyles- and we work hard and just get by.

I don't believe that the 'richer' people should be penalised just because they earn more - by going to university or however they have got their jobs that pay really well they have earned that and I think the only fair way is for everyone to get the same personally. Even higher earners should be entitled to child tax credit and all that - unless they wanted to opt out. That is just my opinion xx

NameChanget the benefits system doesnt work like that if two people are entitled to tax credits etc they would both get them , wether you personally choose to claim them its enturely up to you but it wouldn't be at anyone else's expense if you did claim. them .

by having 'more' I mean my things are nice but second-hand and cheap and I repair or update them. It takes me a lot of time! I still knit my kids jumpers because its cheaper than trying to buy something they'll like.

I think sometimes the problem can be the family were supported by the credits then promotion/change of job means they are over the threshold and so they don’t feel the financial benefit of the change- if that makes sense.

I see a lot of people with wildly different incomes as part of my job. I've noticed that people with more are no happier than those with less. Those with more do not necessarily 'struggle' less than those with less. It boils down to one thing: people who are good at living within their means (however large or small those means are) are a lot happier than people who aren't. To my mind, all those people who wish they had a bit more money should focus on learning to manage better, instead of wishing for a bit extra. There's one exception to this: people at the bottom for whom living within their tiny means is impossible - they will truly benefit from more money.

FourRustedHorses

You all sound resentful of each other though. You talking about their 'very nice 3k bonus' and 'ridiculous amount of free childcare' etc and them of you 'spending all this time with your child and having nice things.'

You would all be much happier to just stop comparing yourselves to others.

Just don't talk to or interact with people like that if it bothers you so much.

Why would higher earners be entitled to child tax credit WoW? Do you mean child benefit? That I would agree with, as it was always intended to be universal.

As for the rest of your post, if those on benefits can genuinely manage to save for holidays on the subsistence level of income that benefits provide then fair play, they can come and do our accounts 😂

The thing I hate most about these threads is that it ends up with animosity between lower-middle income households rather than focusing on how unfair the entire system is. Divide and conquer indeed.

There are some very unfair rules - particularly child benefit where a household bringing in £99k can claim but another household earning £51k has their entitlement taken away.

We are told over and over again about hard working “paying” but it doesn’t really especially with rising housing costs and extortionate childcare costs.

does her husband have a secret drug habit perhaps? I doubt it but maybe. She thinks the rest of the money just gets spent on stuff that he has nothing to show for like meals out etc but as said before he's extravagant in treating their family so maybe he just lives like that! Which I don't see a problem with as he earns the money and should have a nice lifestyle if he wants one. None of them go without, all get nice treats and never struggle so that's why I'm surprised she thinks they should get any "help"

I don't understand how people are mentioned on here as being reasonable earners but getting tax credits? I thought tax credits were only for lower earning households???

I do agree with the child benefit threshold being unfair, it should be based on household income, not individual (ie you wouldn't have two parents earning £40k each being able to claim, and a SAHP and one parent earning £51k not being able to claim).

"on holiday this year and if we do it is camping (which I love) but can never afford to go abroad. "

I presume you have a car and children, which is why it's cheaper for your to go camping in this country. For me as a single person, it would often be cheaper for me to go abroad on a cheap flight than go to another region of the UK on an expensive train.
It gets on my nerves when people perpetuate the myth that holidays abroad are always more expensive.

Seriously, £50k household income is above the national average. It is a good income. I know prices are going up and wages in general are not, but that affects everyone.

I would also love to see evidence of these people with luxurious lifestyles who live on benefits. I know of one mum who relies on benefits (her partner is a minimum wage earner, as was she before children, no free childcare available so no point going back to work). They get by with their two DC no problem but they obviously have to budget significantly. How on earth could you sustain an extravagant lifestyle on benefits?!

W0rriedMum Thank you I appreciate that. The person in the second scenario has known me through all of that so it is hard to swallow sometimes. She'll go on about how lucky I am to have got the job I've now got. Whilst I recognise that I am very lucky, I also worked so hard and still work hard. Sacrificing time with my son to ensure we have a roof over our heads and food on the table not relying on benefits which may be stopped at any time. I was better off working 3 days a week with TCs than I am now but I want to set a good example to him. Don't get me wrong I still have every evening and every weekend with him but I'd like more. It wouldn't be an option for me anyway as I couldn't be dependent on a partner due to my past.

Bloody hell holidays abroad can be cheaper than in this country, especially if you live near a major airport.

Who are these people havinh lavish life styles onbenefits Wow? Dh works full time onna low wage im a carer as my child has severe autism and learning disabillities , we get more benefits than most due to disabillities , we dont have lavish holidays, unless you count a week at Haven as lavish?