"We earn too much for any help"

[Zootrebilis]

Good morning!

Expecting to be flamed for posting this but I need to get it off my chest. I've noticed people moaning that they don't get any "financial help" when they're part of a high income household. I've listed two examples but have many more:

1. A facebook group I'm part of: A lady posted moaning her and her husband don't receive tax credits and was there a way if getting any! She said he's on a very high wage and she works part time but he spends too much and she can't see where his money goes! So basically she wants tax credits because her husband likes spending. Another poster replied moaning her husband earns over the threshold for child benefit as well!

1. Someone I know who is actually a nice person: her husband earns 50k per year minimum (I know because she told us at the time) and she works part time. She was saying it's ridiculous that they don't receive tax credits as they could really do with it.

I just don't get it!!! Surely if they wanted more combined income they should work full time instead of part time (a choice in person 2s case as they have free childcare 3 days per week). I know childcare is expensive. I was a single parent until recently. I had to rely on tax credits for a bit to top up my wages which I hated. They were such uncertain times but I'm so so grateful that kind of help was there when I was alone and poor (my son was conceived by rape). I've worked hard to earn a management role in a sector I love where I get to help people. I earn 22k, partner on minimum wage and we have 2 kids between us. I wouldn't expect financial help in my situation so I don't know why others do! I'm 28 so I'm not of a different generation to them or anything.

Sorry just wanted to get it off my chest!!!

However tax credits take into account your top line. So while your pay rise is £100 a week with the extra tax you’ll pay taken into account you’ll only be £70 a week better off. So effectively your pay rise means you lose £30 a week

I'm not sure how you're working that out.

Assuming the claimant is a standard rate tax payer and not above the higher threshold for NI, £100 pw nets you £68 pw after tax (20% tax + 12% NI). The taper rate for working tax credit is 41% of gross, so you still end up £27 better off than before the increase.

However, if you're on housing benefit as well, you then lose 65% of that £27, so you end up only around £9 better off.

No it wasn't a valid or reasonable question Capri. My point was about the unfairness of a household on £95k receiving a benefit, when a household on less than half that does not.

The reasons why one person in one of those household was or was not working was irrelevant to that point.

And if you don't want people to be 'aggressive' don't use deliberately goady phrases or ask deliberately goady and personally attacking posts. And if you are going to be a tosser at least be honest and own it.

You’re the only one looking like a tosser tbf. Since you don’t actually have anything useful to the debate I’ll just ignore you.

“I’m not sure how you’re working that out”

Lakielady I’m not sure how they work it out either as that exact scenario happened to me and I was worse off 🤷🏻‍♀️ I feel like they pluck their figures out of thin air

I think the 'reward' a high earning household gets is a big wage. They don't get nothing. They get lots of money. The chorus of 'but we earned that money' is irritating as there is an incredible level of wealth inequality in the UK and it is not distributed fairly. You may get vast riches for things such as working in certain areas of banking, for having a trust fund and a rich family for many generations or for being a footballer, reality TV star etc but you don't actually deserve tonnes of money
more than doctors, nurses, soldiers, farmers, teachers etc. If you are lucky enough to have a high income have the good grace to appreciate that instead of moaning that you don't have more and the children of the unemployed family down the street are just given money to have food and clothes and a roof over their heads whilst the government doesn't send you any cash. Rich people already take most of the cash.

I agree completely with you Bernie. Some people are very, very greedy.

Absolutely Bernie.

YANBU some people are nobs

@Araf so are you saying that all people who pay high amounts of tax are good role models in society?! F**king hilarious!!!
You sound like an entitled fool. You don't have to worry about where your next meal is coming from or whether you can afford to heat your home. You are EXTREMELY fortunate and clearly don't appreciate it 🙄

scared I don’t think I am fortunate, I came from a low income family, my dad killed himself when I was 9 because of money stress. I moved out when I was 16 as my mum needed to down grade. I have worked fucking hard to get to where I am. And as I say, no issues paying tax or in to the benefits system but to be eligable for something would be nice once in a while.

What have you done that was so hard, out of interest?

I think its people who when they earn more spend more and then their income isn't enough.

My aims are to get a part time job so I can learn to drive and save some money for a mortgage, finish uni (mature student), get a job (graduate or internship or generic office job as long as it pays the bills and lets me live I don't care), continue to save into an account for a mortgage, an emergency savings account fund, a seperate savings account for shopping and household things a retirement fund and most likely an extra account for any children I may have.

I want to get myself into a position where I don't NEED government assistance. I've grown up below the poverty line but we've always had nice things because we don't smoke/drink/take drugs, save for what we want or need, use cheap and secondhand, repair what we can. Don't eat out or order in at all and we got buy only eating fresh foods as I'm allergic to most processed and tinned foods.
(My mams a seamstress so I was taught to make and patch clothing, my dad was an avid gardener so taught me to grow our own veggies and kept chickens). I've been taught to make a meal out of nothing mainly the virtues of potatoes and bread (think traditional meat and two veg or stews and soups), I can cook lots of different cuisines and bake and I do regularly but I have no issues stripping back to the very basics when I need too and thats what a lot of people struggle with.

They live beyond their means. My sisters and other family members do it. I have a credit card and I've used it once so I could buy a weeks shop when I had nothing and no money, I've not used it since. The only reason I have it is to use to buy 1 or 2 things a month pay off the next day so I can build a credit score. If I can't afford something I go without until I can.

@Araf but you have enough money NOT to claim benefits! The benefits system isn't to reward anybody its to help people bloody survive. Get off your high horse nobody said you didn't work fucking hard did they and I'm sorry to hear about your father that's awful.

It costs more to be poor. I am not a high earner (single parent, pt job but in a professional role with a good hourly rate) I get a small amount in tax credits, CB and some child maintenance from my ex but because I don't have any debt I have very low mortgage payments. They are less than half what it would cost to rent in my area. And because I can run a cheap car I can take advantage of lower food bills and cheaper holidays. I'm lucky that I recieve tax credits (and I'm definitely "entitled" to them) but I could see how in many cases a family earning more than me on the face of it could easily need them more.

Although I'm happy working part time and having a low maintenance lifestyle I do get pissed off with my much higher earning friends who think I have an easy life because I get £400 a month in tax credits when they have a combined salary of almost 4 x what I earn.

People who work don’t just get a wage, they get a pension, they get access to sharesaves, health and insurance benefits, social benefits. Those incomes then feedback to being approved for higher mortgages. Also there’s the matter of NI contributions leading to higher pension contributions later. Someone who claims tax credits all their lives will never be as wealthy long term as someone who has always earned above.

Child benefit is a bit of a joke though. I stay at home and look after the kids (almost three and almost one). My spouse works and earns a little over £50k p/a. So we’re limited on the CB. If we both worked and earned £49k each we’d be able to claim the full whack. Should be family income not individual.

@homeishere - if you both earned 49k then another school of thought is that you would contribute more tax and require payment towards childcare so you’d be more ‘deserving’ of support. I personally believe child benefit should be banned for anyone earning above 30k and also increased — because it’s the lowest earners who need it most.

"they get access to sharesaves, health and insurance benefits"

I've never had any of this. I've also worked in places that didn't have work pensions and they've only been compulsory in the last few years.

I think child benefit should be universal. Children cost money. We put an amount roughly equivalent to CB in savings for DC and I don't really understand why people would have an issue with that - if you see finances as a family pot then you could say the savings come from earned income and the CB buys food. We feel our DC will need savings - our DC won't get grants if they choose to go to uni.

I am disgusted by the two-child policy for other benefits, although I understand the thinking behind it. It penalises the children though. The bottom line is we as a nation need to pay more tax; I'd start with the big corporations who manage to get away with minimal payments. Basically the whole tax system needs an overhaul alongside benefits.

People hate the idea of those on benefits getting something they don’t get. They’re too busy concentrating on the fact they’re going without to realise that if you don’t qualify for state help, especially if it’s because one of you is a high rate tax payer, then you are already winning life’s lottery.

Children cost money Yes. They do. They are also a choice. Cars cost money. Holidays cost money. I chose not to have children. Why should I pay for someone else's children anymore than you should pay for my holidays?

@cherries101 I think 30k is low. It should be done on household income I think actually. There are plenty of people who are on okay salaries that if you are alone raising a child it becomes quite hard on it but are not entitled to any help. Beyond that they ate often worse off than those who earn less as they aren’t eligible for housing benefit or council tax help or money off their water bill.
The examples in the OP are ridiculous but there are plenty of people in the middle ground who are barely managing. Especially when rent is high. People often say to move to cheaper areas but that doesn’t help as that assumes you aren’t already travelling for work and that extra travel is possible.

I just think that children are of more value to society - an investment who will contribute in many ways, not just financial - than holidays - but I would say that!