"We earn too much for any help"

[Zootrebilis]

Good morning!

Expecting to be flamed for posting this but I need to get it off my chest. I've noticed people moaning that they don't get any "financial help" when they're part of a high income household. I've listed two examples but have many more:

1. A facebook group I'm part of: A lady posted moaning her and her husband don't receive tax credits and was there a way if getting any! She said he's on a very high wage and she works part time but he spends too much and she can't see where his money goes! So basically she wants tax credits because her husband likes spending. Another poster replied moaning her husband earns over the threshold for child benefit as well!

1. Someone I know who is actually a nice person: her husband earns 50k per year minimum (I know because she told us at the time) and she works part time. She was saying it's ridiculous that they don't receive tax credits as they could really do with it.

I just don't get it!!! Surely if they wanted more combined income they should work full time instead of part time (a choice in person 2s case as they have free childcare 3 days per week). I know childcare is expensive. I was a single parent until recently. I had to rely on tax credits for a bit to top up my wages which I hated. They were such uncertain times but I'm so so grateful that kind of help was there when I was alone and poor (my son was conceived by rape). I've worked hard to earn a management role in a sector I love where I get to help people. I earn 22k, partner on minimum wage and we have 2 kids between us. I wouldn't expect financial help in my situation so I don't know why others do! I'm 28 so I'm not of a different generation to them or anything.

Sorry just wanted to get it off my chest!!!

“I think sometimes the problem can be the family were supported by the credits then promotion/change of job means they are over the threshold and so they don’t feel the financial benefit of the change- if that makes sense.”

I have a friend like this. She had a fantastic career, but not a family friendly one. Her and her DH compounded this by moving to the suburbs to get a family home etc so her travelling time was considerable. She had to give up work and is enourmously resentful of this. Her DH earns just over the CB limit and she was almost deranged with self pity over losing that money.

Other people, who lived on half what her DH earns were upset and frustrated with her attitude.

But she was in a very specific place at that time, a very sad and bitter place, huge change in lifestyles, a life style that was built when they both worked and still had to supported.

Or take me and DH. We earn 6 figures but with the cost of full child care plus 5+ years of home renovation, most of our spare money has been sucked up. We get along fine but no savings, my next maternity leave will be a struggle financially etc. However when our children are over we will be in a privileged position won’t we? Thousands of extra pounds a month of disposable income. It really depends when you catch someone as to what sort of response they have

Perfectly1mperfect not resentful at all.

they described its as a very nice 3k bonus and brag about how much they save with childcare and bitch at me that despite being on benefits I should have nice things. Apparently A single mother on income support shouldn't have comfort. my house is nice and they make repeated digs about how can I afford it on benefits. All this whilst moaning refugees get more benefits than they do and single mothers make a career choice. Theres more to this... I hate being a carer because its so isolating and I do what I do to stay sane. It doesn't help having wealthier people around you tell you you dont deserve to have nice things or make you feel like utter shit for it.

abacucat I agree, and I never for one second pretend that mine and DH's combined income of circa £57k a year (gross) isn't good. We are very comfortable, and lucky, and I'm well aware.

But, you really never know what people's outgoings are. DH has debt from his younger days, which he has been paying £200 off a month for several years and will be for two years still. Our childcare is £250 a month, and is set to rise significantly. We live in a nice area, our mortgage is more than a lot of people's I imagine, we are council tax band F and our energy bills are high. We have used interest free credit to pay for a lot of things for our house, so pay £150-200 a month off this. Yes we chose to buy a house which needed work, but it was either that or live in a not so nice area. We are always paying for something for the house in cash which means I've saved £150 a month for as long as I can remember - decorating, plastering etc. I will be going on maternity leave in January so am saving for that too, to cover while I'm on statutory pay. You really never know what people's outgoings are, regardless of income.

I would like child benefit reinstated to all. It should go to the mother as it always has because that £20+ per week can be the difference between a woman staying in a violent home or being able to escape. We've taken away a safety net for a lot of women by removing that.

The benefits system isn’t fair though, but then extra support isn’t really to be taken for granted. As a sahm with a husband who earns just over the the threshold we do miss out compared to people bringing in far more money but split between two of us working. In fact next year when I go back to uni and dh drops some hours to help with the kids we will be better off no doubt. Go figure.

The beginning of the year I was working full time two kids in childcare I hardly saw them and relied on tax credits for food I cut my hours changed my job and because I work school hours primarily I have no childcare costs because I rely on family and friends to cover me in the holidays etc I'm actually entitled to a small amount of housing benefit it's ridiculous work should pay I shouldn't rely on tax credits years ago I didn't need to life is so expensive now my ex pays bugger all towards his kids

I'm actually ashamed of it all

Completely agree with the PP's who talk about fairness of the scheme.

I am the sole breadwinner, earning £3k over the threshold and so don't qualify (which is fine). We choose for my DH to be a SAHD due to long standing health issues and this was our choice, so we don't have an issue with us NOT receiving any benefits, and adjust our spend accordingly.

Our best friends however, both earn £5-1k UNDER the threshold, so there total household income is almost double ours, but they qualify.

I know what they earn, cos they are open about it. They have also refused pay increases which will take them above the threshold UNLESS it takes them £8k over as this is how much they would lose (pre-tax)

It's a shit system that does not give to those who actually need it...

FourRustedHorses

I think that I would take these people out of your life. They sound awful. Anyone that would begrudge a single mother caring for her child or refugees some help get put on my shit list and I choose to not entertain them. I have plenty of them in my 'family'. They choose to ignore that their own lack of money is because they acted like idiots at school and act irresponsibly..... much easier to blame others.

Don't let them make you feel like shit, you do deserve nice things. Sorry to here you feel isolated. Do you have anyone who can help ? Will things get easier as your child gets older ? Ignore them and live your life.

Hear not here

It really irritates me when people moan they've no money after mortgage, piano lessons etc etc. No. You have money and you've spent it.

Ok, a little off topic, but if you are getting things of your chest, so am I. My Dh earns just over the limit for us to get child benefit. It does piss me off that couples who are earning 30k/45k a year more than us as a couple still receive child benefit. That cash would make a lot more difference to us than them. It's an obvious unfairness in the system because the government backed down on their initial plans and so introduced this ill conceived political backdown instead. All the people I know with joint incomes of £8k to £95K yet are still entitled to child benefit, have extremely pleasant lifestyles, cleaners, foreign holidays, eating out in cafes/ restaurants when they are out in the day with their kids, cocktail nights out 'with the girls', spa days, £100 hair colouring. All the stuff we can't afford. I know we are not on the breadline either, but really, why should anyone with such a luxurious lifestyle get benefits?? Especially when others with 45k LESS year income don't???

That should have read £80k to £95k

It’s a political and societal debate that goes back to the removal of universal benefits which were removed from families during austerity

The argument for universal benefits is that it ensures that everyone sees a benefit from taxation, we all get something back apart in addition to the usual national and local services. This means people more readily buy into the concept of a welfare state. It’s very much a left wing concept. We should all have a financial stake in the system and feel entitled to it.

The argument against is that it is a waste giving money to people who don’t need it. Instead it could be used to provide greater benefits to those in need. Or, to fund tax cuts. In other words, allow people with middle to high income to keep more of their money. A more right wing concept. We should be self reliant and look after ourselves.

What gets me is people who don't work that are on benefits having big holidays and lavish lifestyles- and we work hard and just get by. I've literally never seen this.

you could have a person earning 48000 and their partner earning 12000. They wouldn't get child benefit.
Another couple could earn 40000 each and they get it.
It's not a fair system.

This ^

I don’t believe my family should get child benefit because DH has a reasonably good salary. However, it does irk that some families could bring in £20,000 more and receive benefits that we’re not entitled to.

£50k is not that much after tax (about £35k) and some households get that amount in benefits and satellite benefits (such as free prescriptions, subsidised childcare, subsidised entry to various places) etc and a lot of high earners are paying full tax while living in expensive private rentals, paying full rent from their taxed income whilst low earners often have help towards their rents or live in social housing so it's not always as simple as someone earning a lot is necessarily better off than someone on a lower wage/not earning.

I saw a post recently where a presumably unwell woman was denied travelling expenses to a hospital. She wanted the money back for her and her partner. She said ' why should I prop up the NHS?'. I suggested she applied for PIP ( which awards mobility help where needed) and was roundly attacked...
This astounded me.The attitude. That the system is there to hand back all the time.

Yes I think the cb changes are ridiculous. It should be scrapped completely and instead all children should get money paid into an account to be spent by a nominated adult on things like swimming lessons, vitamins, nappies and formula etc. A pain to administrate but surley the point of cb was for families with children to have a bit of money towards the cost of raising them.

NameChanget the benefits system doesnt work like that if two people are entitled to tax credits etc they would both get them , wether you personally choose to claim them its enturely up to you but it wouldn't be at anyone else's expense if you did claim. them .

Of course it would. The benefit bill isn't infinite. There has to be a line somewhere. Giving people on 50k benefits is just ridiculous. Seriously, how much money do people need?

People have mentioned examples where individuals have lost tax credits if they have had a pay rise or bonus

What is shit about tax credits is in the event of a pay rise / bonus you alway lose MORE in tax credits than you gain from the extra money from work

For example a person on say £20,000, with 3 dc also getting £100 a week from tax credits gets a pay rise of £100 a week.
Then Loses their tax credits, fair enough you might say! And I would agree, However tax credits take into account your top line. So while your pay rise is £100 a week with the extra tax you’ll pay taken into account you’ll only be £70 a week better off. So effectively your pay rise means you lose £30 a week

Does this make sense?

And I know as I have been that person ending up worse off due to a pay rise !

Do people not realise this ? It’s so fucking unfair !!

Having said that with the looming disaster universal credit, it will get even worse, people will long for the days of tax credits

I thank God I no longer claim anything but feel so bad for people that do

Interesting post. My personal situation is single mother with and with my ex has our daughter every other weekend and a night during the week. I'm in the house which will be for another three years as we took out a fixed term 5 year mortgage. This mortgage is crippling and we have another year of nursery fees to go. He does pay maintenance but I always have too much month left at the end of the money. I earn too much to claim CB but claim it anyway as my solicitor told me that it's paid to the resident parent. It goes into a saving account but the money would be useful. Looking forward to selling this house and buying somewhere cheaper but this will be far away from my current area and support network... I have no parents, and my sister lives in another country, so family help is non existent... at least I can see that things might improve in the near to mid future. Despite earning a good wage I'm very frugal and rarely spend money on nights out etc, perhaps movies twice a month on a discounted ticket. Life is expensive at the moment.

I think people will long for the days before Brexit. Back in the day when there was a benefits system to help people in times of need.

I am also glad I no longer claim anything. I am poorer, but money isn't everything. I also feel sorry for people needing to claim, but we shouldn't have to, we should just pay people properly and then we wouldn't need to top up wages.

MsLexic

PIP isn't to help in cases of financial hardship though so possibly in this case the lady wasn't able to claim?

I pay around £30 per week just in travel to the hospital. That's about 1/3 of my wages (thankfully my husband earns our main income). I have mobility problems but when I look at the PIP guidelines I don't think that I would qualify. Not sure though. Maybe I would but I can do more than their guidelines, albeit by gritting my teeth and pushing on. I also pay for private physio because the availability on the NHS just isn't there.

My local hospital can't provide me with the treatment that I need. If it could I would be much better off financially, plus I wouldn't have to take a day's holiday every time I go to the hospital just to cover the 4 hours return travel.

Level of income doesn't tell the whole story. Two people on the same income can have wildly different outgoings and not necessarily based on lifestyle choices. Ill health can impact hugely on family finances.

Whilst I don't agree with the tax credit element the child benefit rule does annoy me as other PP stated you can have a higher joint income and your child still receive it but because I am above a certain level the tax I would have to pay is higher despite having lower joint income. There is no point even registering my child for it so I won't be.

My SIL loves to complain about how hard up she is when in reality her wage is more of her own as niece nursery fees are pretty much fully covered, tax credits etc.

Whilst I appreciate that I'm fortunate I also work very hard and it does sting slightly when my tax and NI is high to know we cover all costs ourselves. I do also remind myself that it also pays for NHS, teachers etc.