Would you really say this women has to pee in the mens toilets?

[letsseethanshallwe]

There is so many threads on mumsnet about how transwomen should not be allowed in womens bathrooms because of the threat of attack ect. KNow I have someone very close in my family who is transgender (FTM) they pass as a man easily, so when these threads come up i always relate them to him, if he was to walk into a womens bathroom people would think it was extremly wrong, but thats what people are suggesting because hes chromosones say hes a women. I do understand the argument of a transwomen who dosent pass as a women atall to no use the womens toliets, but it seems to me that people seem to think that evrey transwomen wont pass. SO attached i have a picture of a youtuber who is trans, would you really see her be put in a mens toliets, that wouls surely plass her in a lot of danger.
Or do you think she should still use the mens. I'm genuilly intrested. Ive name changed recently and done another thread on a simal topic that got no replies. I just want to see were your argument lies

Well, I'd view the transwoman as a woman in that situation.

On what basis tho? It's not a trick question. But if you are deciding that men can be women, on the basis of their say-so, it's not a good premise for safeguarding, is it?

Men who fancy women and use their penis are no different at all by identifying as a woman.

@PositivelyPERF If they were just getting changed and minding their own business, does it matter? I don't think I'd notice.

What about the other women and girls. Where in your list of trans accepting priorities do their wishes sit? Where does the right if my youngest with SN, who was abused, come in your list of trans accepting priorities? Does her right not to be horribly distressed by a male bodied person in a female space, mean less to you, than the annoyance of the trans person at having to get changed with other male bodied persons?

What about the other women and girls

Well quite.

Assuming it's ok for intact men who fancy women, or young girls, but identify as women, to get changed with teenage girls? How about toddler swim?

In my view it all depends on whether they still have a penis

How do you police that? Is there someone to be on Pants Patrol at the door?

Can you imagine, ladies changing room
Wrapped in a towel Far too small to actually cover my norks
“Excuse me person with a penis, please could you tell me whether you are a perv or a genuine Transwomen?”
Not going to work is it?

To be fair 2128Cl might well be under the impression that most transwomen are homosexual.

They're not.

Try googling #GirlsLikeUs, #TransGirls

Excuse me person with a penis, please could you tell me whether you are a perv or a genuine Transwomen?”

But also, being a genuine transwoman doesn't stop them being a perv. It's not a magic purity spell.

IT may be difficult for a person who looks like that to use the men's, but if they have a penis that is where they should go.
Women played no part in creating this dilemma so it is not fair that we should be expected to solve it.

still waiting on an answer to the problem of checking everyone for a penis at the door to the Ladies. everywhere. all the time.

and before all the ‘that’s not what i meant’ starts, there are more than a few ‘penis-haver = men’s loos’ posts. i can’t be arsed to copy-paste on an ipad, but trust me.

so. what is in place now enforcing this? or the plan going forward?

anyone?

If someone born male is so convinced they're female that they've had their penis removed, then they're free to use to use the women's lips.

If they've kept their todger, then they're not a woman. Not even close, and they need to use the men's loos.

Pretty simple. You can't wah on about being a woman, expect to be accepted as a woman and admitted to women's spaces, if you have a penis.

And if the idea of entering men's spaces is scary, a) welcome to our world, and b) put pressure on men to change their behaviour, rather than - as always - just expecting women to roll over.

P.S. good luck with that.

On what basis tho? It's not a trick question. But if you are deciding that men can be women, on the basis of their say-so, it's not a good premise for safeguarding, is it?

That's she's living as a woman and minding her own business? She's not there to bother anyone or make anyone feel uncomfortable?
If someone is causing problems then they should be removed.
My friend was attacked by another female in a public toilet. There's no solution to please everyone.

So because a rule is not 100% enforceable it should be abandoned?
Suppose we'll have to legalise murder, rape, theft etc then.

@exWifebeginsat40
sorry, can someone tell me who currently does the Penis Check at the door of every women’s loo?

Just seen your comment after posting mine, glad it's not just me!
"S'cuse me, are you a penis owner or a vag one? Vag, you say? Nah, don't believe ya. Drop 'em so I can check. You don't want to? Men's are that way then."
I have an extremely butch looking friend in build, weight and height If you didn't know her you would no doubt think she was male, in fact she's been mistaken for my boyfriend before

To be fair 2128Cl might well be under the impression that most transwomen are homosexual.

I assume you mean attracted to males? Not at all, of course there are women attracted to other women in changing rooms!

would you really see her be put in a mens toliets, that would surely place her in a lot of danger.

As much danger as any other man - including all the ones in these pictures - that can use the women's toilets, if Self ID is brought in.

Any man will be able to say they are a woman and use the female toilets, so the mens will probably be the safest place for women AND transwomen to be.

No Datun all the Transwomen who have committed sex crimes against women aren’t GENUINE Transwomen don’t ya know?

@Hoppinggreen and I suppose there are no women who make other women feel unsafe...

HRTFT yet but this is Eden the Doll and she has had full gender reassignment surgery. Just throwing that in to help with any confusion

That's she's living as a woman and minding her own business? She's not there to bother anyone or make anyone feel uncomfortable?

How can a man live as a woman? You're talking about stereotypes again. Dresses and wigs . It's meaningless.

How do you know she won't make people uncomfortable? Why are you only thinking about the intention of males. Why can't you think about the effect on females?

Why is it so difficult to think about the women in this situation?

You relying on a man telling you what he is or isn't going to do, when he wants to access female facilities is extraordinarily naive. And it's centring men over women to a breathtaking level.

If people think sex-segregated toilets will need Penis Patrol at the door, if we then segregate on the basis of 'feminine enough or not', who is going to do the Attractiveness Check?

Im another who has never had a problem with the idea of a transwoman in the toilet

But i wouldnt get changed and showered in a mixed sex changing room and I'm honestly suprised at how many people on here would be happy with that

How can a man live as a woman? You're talking about stereotypes again. Dresses and wigs . It's meaningless.

Wigs? I was thinking more pronouns and hormones.

poptart

Hello eden,

Why are you talking in the third person?

Lovely photos by the way, before and after to be fair

and I suppose there are no women who make other women feel unsafe...

What kind of argument is this? On any level?

Firstly women being abused is really not a good reason to give them more abuse.

Secondly, what women? Sexual crime is committed by men 98% of the time. 98% vs 2%.

There are 14,000 men in prison for sex offences. And 120 women.

I was thinking more pronouns and hormones.

Pronouns don't change your sex. And neither do hormones.