Would you really say this women has to pee in the mens toilets?

[letsseethanshallwe]

There is so many threads on mumsnet about how transwomen should not be allowed in womens bathrooms because of the threat of attack ect. KNow I have someone very close in my family who is transgender (FTM) they pass as a man easily, so when these threads come up i always relate them to him, if he was to walk into a womens bathroom people would think it was extremly wrong, but thats what people are suggesting because hes chromosones say hes a women. I do understand the argument of a transwomen who dosent pass as a women atall to no use the womens toliets, but it seems to me that people seem to think that evrey transwomen wont pass. SO attached i have a picture of a youtuber who is trans, would you really see her be put in a mens toliets, that wouls surely plass her in a lot of danger.
Or do you think she should still use the mens. I'm genuilly intrested. Ive name changed recently and done another thread on a simal topic that got no replies. I just want to see were your argument lies

Well yes - how do you pee without freeing your nether regions from their lower garments? And don't even talk about bloody jumpsuits!

In a locked cubicle...

in a locked cubicle, where you are now half naked..... one flimsy lock and door with walls 6 inches from the floor and a couple of feet from the ceiling doesn't protect much!

Yes, fully sealed cubicles are lovely, but most places don't have them, because they have sex segregated toilets which makes them less needed.

Unisex toilets, which afaik have those cubicles, have a far higher rate of sexual assault than single sex toiled

2128CI I expect the man wouldn't wank when I return with other men to chuck him out

Transwomen in the US are allowed to be naked with penis fully exposed, in womens spaces
Most women would walk right out of a changing on seeing that, but after self-ID in the UK would no longer be able to demand that the man be removed

To be honest I really don't understand - and never have - why loos have to be separate. Quick confession here, if there's a massive queue for the ladies and the men's is empty, I self ID as a man and nip in quickly.

OlennasWimple
Why is that picture of the person supposed to influence where she uses the toilet? She still looks like a man anyway, I can definitely tell.
The poster who said
The argument lies that it's not about passing (or not passing - and in real life, very very few transwomen do pass even if in photos they might) is exactly right

They usually only ever look a little bit convincing in pics, but you can always tell in real life. And besides, if you have a penis, I don't care if you look like a woman, you must pee with the other penises.

@BigChocFrenzy surely no one is going to let someone stand wanking in a shared changing room? That's not acceptable regardless of identity.

Actually even in MN there has been threads about men in women changing area (swimming pool) ogling young women getting changed whilst stroking their penis....
So yes they might identify as women but they sure as hell behave a like a man.
Still on here, there has been instances of teenagers having an erection in a women changing room. Changing they were using because they are trans.

So actually no it’s not an unusual situation.
But we are told they can’t help it (natural and uncontrollable body reaction), it has nothing to do with the fact they are or not trans. And we should all happily accept it.

*The problem with people like the transwoman in the photo is that not only do they think womanhood is a stereotype, they think it's a hyper sexualised one. Their sexism is blatant.

They really should not be female spaces amongst vulnerable women

Sorry Datum but this is nonsense. MANY women who are not trans style themselves in a similar way. I see them everywhere. Are you offended by their hyper sexuality too?

I think you're missing my point. It's not about hypersexuality. Its about men seeing women as a hyper sexual stereotype. It's just pure objectification.

Women who are hyper sexualised are still women. They still have female biology. They know what a woman actually is.

The entire premise that women can be defined as a feeling in a man's head is the living example of sexism.

And with certain transwomen (not all), it's dictated by porn. As is their attitude to women and what 'womanhood' means.

It's unacceptable to get women to validate this version.

*Actually even in MN there has been threads about men in women changing area (swimming pool) ogling young women getting changed whilst stroking their penis....
So yes they might identify as women but they sure as hell behave a like a man.
Still on here, there has been instances of teenagers having an erection in a women changing room. Changing they were using because they are trans.

So actually no it’s not an unusual situation.
But we are told they can’t help it (natural and uncontrollable body reaction), it has nothing to do with the fact they are or not trans. And we should all happily accept it.*

I've never heard of this happening and don't understand why it wasn't stopped when it involved touching.
Genuine transwomen aren't a threat in this situation.

@BigChocFrenzy surely no one is going to let someone stand wanking in a shared changing room? That's not acceptable regardless of identity.

In showers. It is happening. No, it's not allowed. It's still happening.

I appreciate you get so many tweets, you may have missed it, but my daughter aged 11 was forced to undress while another girl watched and played with his erect penis.

Watching the determination to not acknowledge that dismantling sex segregation was responsible, is cringing.

mobile.twitter.com/stellacreasy/status/975437024038739968?lang=en

MrMaker - it was me who said that bit that you quoted (about being able to tell IRL, even if not on a photo)

If she has a penis then men's toilet.

If she's committed to surgery them women's.

@Datun Changing rooms and showers at the gym/pool surely have staff to deal with these situations! It's different to public toilets where there's no staff. I would be horrified if anyone started touching themselves in a shared area, male or female, and would alert someone.

Genuine transwomen aren't a threat in this situation.

I agree. So could you tell me how I can tell the difference between a genuine transsexual and someone who is either dressing as one and entering female spaces for sexual gratification or to abuse women/children, please?

@OlennasWimple sorry I don't know how I copied your name and post separately, doh!

It’s not about whether they look like a woman though, (what does a woman actually look like?) but about their penises in our safe, female only spaces. If your friend feels unsafe, with a penis, looking ‘like a woman’ in a men’s public space, why the hell should we allow men with penises into our female public space?

Very well articulated up thread- I don’t believe transgender people are sexual predators, but I do believe sexual predators will exploit this self ID catastrophe and the people who will suffer are women.

2128Cl

I agree. I'd be horrified too. This was at school. This mother was offered counselling for her daughter. She said counselling? I don't want you to fix the abuse my daughter suffered because of self ID. I want you to prevent it from happening.

And not call it peer on peer assault. Thereby completely disguising the reason it happened.

It's really not a solution to suggest teachers be more vigilant to stop boys wanking at girls tho.

2128Cl Am I permitted to say ‘NO’ to seeing a penis in a female changing room, no matter how the person identifies or am I only permitted to say ‘NO’ to seeing the penis of a man who doesn’t identify as a none man.

I agree. So could you tell me how I can tell the difference between a genuine transsexual and someone who is either dressing as one and entering female spaces for sexual gratification or to abuse women/children, please?

I don't know the answer but I don't believe it's excluding all transwomen who still have a penis from female spaces, many of them are genuine. There should be harsh consequences for people who abuse the system.

@PositivelyPERF If they were just getting changed and minding their own business, does it matter? I don't think I'd notice.

If they were just getting changed and minding their own business, does it matter? I don't think I'd notice.

Seriously? How many women are completely cool with mixed sex changing facilities, where they disrobe?

@Datun I'm referring to a transgender woman with a penis minding her own business in a changing room.

2128Cl

$@Datun I'm referring to a transgender woman with a penis minding her own business in a changing room.*

Ok, but What is the difference between a transgender woman, minding her own business, and a man minding his own business?

Well, I'd view the transwoman as a woman in that situation.

If there's a genuine transwoman who's had top surgery only, where should she go?

How do I tell the difference between a naked man and a naked transwoman who has not had bottom surgery?

Am I likely to feel embarrassed and undignified in front of one but not the other? Really?