Would you really say this women has to pee in the mens toilets?

[letsseethanshallwe]

There is so many threads on mumsnet about how transwomen should not be allowed in womens bathrooms because of the threat of attack ect. KNow I have someone very close in my family who is transgender (FTM) they pass as a man easily, so when these threads come up i always relate them to him, if he was to walk into a womens bathroom people would think it was extremly wrong, but thats what people are suggesting because hes chromosones say hes a women. I do understand the argument of a transwomen who dosent pass as a women atall to no use the womens toliets, but it seems to me that people seem to think that evrey transwomen wont pass. SO attached i have a picture of a youtuber who is trans, would you really see her be put in a mens toliets, that wouls surely plass her in a lot of danger.
Or do you think she should still use the mens. I'm genuilly intrested. Ive name changed recently and done another thread on a simal topic that got no replies. I just want to see were your argument lies

Why would they need to be in the women's is more the question, if the men's are totally safe?

Even if the men's were a paradise on earth and the women's a festering hell hole, undoubtedly most trans women would use the women's, on account of being women. If not to you, at least to themselves.

That's kind of the thing with being trans.

You know it isn't just men in dress-up, right? To them, they're often women or men whose bodyis wrong?

You may now agree with that, you may not even like that, but that is sort of the general premise. Do you want to make it so they can't live their lives in line with that belief? Would you consider yourself conservative (small "c")?

Of vourse 46 is 46 too many.

I thought the article said 14 in single sex areas

Obviously 1 is too many

Well yes, if I was a sex worker it's the look I'd go for, to attract men. Why would it be a secret that they have a look? So do most porn stars.. It's because it sells. My point is that transwomen tend to go for that look for some bizarre reason.

Now you are back Rat, can you explain what fundamental changes a man goes through when he says he is a woman, to make him suddenly become no threat to women

Oh sure, right after your tell me in what way women are "no threat" to women. Because "no threat" appears to be the benchmark you're aiming for, which is admirably naive.

You do realise that most UK public facilities are not segregated primarily to mitigate "threat" don't you? I mean we're not living in a lawless refugee camp, you know that, right?

I'm pointing out that they always go for a certain look don't they? I can't be bothered to address your makeup comment properly. I am pointing out that a real woman looks like a woman, without ridiculous amounts of sex doll makeup

Oh, and what ALL of them? That's a massive assumption and stereotype you've gone for there.
I never wear make up. This comment has just reminded me of when I was walking down the street the other year one evening in my presumably unfeminine clothes and lack of make up, some girls who passed me said "you look like a bloke."
Me and as I walked past ignoring the idiots then to myself and a mental "oooookay" lol.
Luckily I couldn't give a shit though. Lucky I'm a biological woman just walking down the street, maybe if it was a toilet they might have felt uncomfortable and wanted proof because of my lack of make up and bloke's clothes lol.

People are entitled to believe anything they want.

Religious freedom is a right.

What they can not do is force that belief on others.

If a man feels he is a woman, even while using his penis to urinate, thats upto him.

He does not have the right to enter female spaces and force that belief on us.

You're right Rufus, sorry.

"In a further 46 cases, sexual assault allegations were made about attacks in other areas such as in the pool, in a sports hall or corridors."

So why is it the thread isnt full of photos of transwomen with short hair, no makeup and casual clothing?

Why have you only chosen pictures which appear more porn star woman than average woman?

So why is it the thread isnt full of photos of transwomen with short hair, no makeup and casual clothing?

Why have you only chosen pictures which appear more porn star woman than average woman?

But you know who else might like "femininity"? Women. They might, you know, like it, just because. Not because they're "up for it", or "asking for it", or because they want men to find them sexy, just because they like it. I really think you need to have a long hard think about why you feel the way you do about women and femininity, and particularly how you seem to feel about sex workers. I hardly ever wear makeup BTW

Well said to that bit! What really pisses me off is when women tell other women what they should or shouldn't be doing. What they should like, what they should think, and if you don't think the same it automatically means you don't care about women.
Yeah, I do,I am one.
Sometimes women WANT to be dressed up sexily, WANT to wear high heels and have dyed blonde hair etc, and why shouldn't they? They may be doing it for THEM and not necessarily for the eyes of blokes, it's just what THEY like, and think sod everyone else.
Same will no doubt go for transwomen!
We don't all think the same.
(Another one who hardly ever - read nearly never - wears make up btw.)

to be perfectly honest, I reckon most transwomen are sadly deluded about their appearance. 99% of them still look like blokes 99% of the time and the only reason they don't realise that themselves is that everyone else it too polite to say it to their face.

Well yes, if I was a sex worker it's the look I'd go for, to attract men. Why would it be a secret that they have a look? So do most porn stars.. It's because it sells. My point is that transwomen tend to go for that look for some bizarre reason

Maybe so judgemental bigots don’t keep calling them a man in a dress.

But that aside, all of the transwoman I’ve met in my life have actually worn quite minimal makeup and jeans. So that is my perception of them. All women can dress however they like without being judged for it, careless of if they’re a transwoman. Some feminist

Oh sure, right after your tell me in what way women are "no threat" to women. Because "no threat" appears to be the benchmark you're aiming for, which is admirably naive

Lol.

You don't have anything do you?

Because as you well know, men who say they are women are as much a threat to women as men are.

Men kill 2-3 women a week, and commit 98% of crimes, but let's talk about the threat that women pose.

You don't have anything do you?

They never do. It's tedious.

Why cant men also wear what they like without being judged?

What wrong with men wearing dresses?

If men’s toilets and changing rooms are so dangerous to vulnerable people, why are we supposed to accept male children from the age of 7/8 upwards using these facilities on their own? I think the answer is to make men’s facilities safer rather than using women’s as a kind of ‘default’ for any vulnerable group who don’t feel comfortable in the men’s. FWIW I probably wouldn’t be bothered by the individual pictured but that’s beside the point.

They never do. It's tedious.

So is people jumping in to just say stuff like that and not actually engage with points they're saying.
Also fuck thinking that femininity is dressing up for the blokes.
Feminism is recognising that all women are individuals and can think for themselves.

So is people jumping in to just say stuff like that and not actually engage with points they're saying.

I've been asking how this miracle that renders men as no threat to women for what seems like years now....never had a response.

Sorry sackrifice, I was busy reading "Where's Spot?" for the five-millionth time. Now where we're we...

Because as you well know, men who say they are women are as much a threat to women as men are.

Leeeeeets unpack this, shall we? Because it's important to understand where you're coming from, I think.

Why are men statistically more violent than women? Do you believe there is a fundamental biological difference between the sexes the makes men violent and women meek?

Or do you think the social conducts of gender are the reason for the differences between male and female criminality (although do remember than criminality is also a social construct)?

Because if it's the first, not only would I be surprised, but I'd wonder how that squares with your feminism, and indeed how it squares with you thinking one could not possibly be born in the "wrong" body.

And if it's the second, that's seem more reasonable, but then you asked me what "process" a trans woman underwent to make her "less of a threat than other men" whilst also deriding her for embracing stereotypes. When surely "embracing stereotypes" is precisely the process she should undergo to make her "less of a risk", if male violence is a question of gendered expectations.

You'd better tell me which angle you're coming at this from.

Fucking brilliant, transwomen rape and murder women...

Butwe arent allowed toquestion it unless we know the reason they do it?

Why dont you tell us Rat?
Why do men call themselves women while still using their penis to rape women?

Um, Hyppolyta, I can see you're very passionate about this debate, but I don't think I'm saying what you think I'm saying.

Butwe arent allowed toquestion it unless we know the reason they do it?

^^this is bonkers, because what I'm actually asking - and^ to a specific poster - is "why do YOU think that is". Just because frankly I'm struggling to understand where she coming from with her question, which she seems to think is some fundamental game changer. A "gotcha!" I believe they call it on FWR.

Use the disabled

Fucking brilliant, transwomen rape and murder women...

So do woman, so do men. People do bad things to other people. Why don’t we just keep everyone locked up indoors 100% of the time? Then we’ll be safe, would that make you happy? The world would be a great place if every possible threat was taken out of the equation.

I was raped at 15 a few yards from my front door in broad daylight, do I now believe that no men should be allowed to walk the street in daylight? No. The actions of a few despicable people do not represent the whole community they are from.

Oppressing and minimilasing a whole group of people as just men with a fetish or whatever is so naive. Remember when people used to think woman shouldn’t be in workplaces because we belonged at home, it was so damaging to our children to dare to be anything but a mother - and our poor husbands. But then people woke the fuck up and realised that times change and people are allowed to want to be things and they’re free to be who they are.

I hate seeing this subject on here. My best friend is a trans person who attempted suicide, his mental health is finally on the up and then I see threads like this and pray that he doesn’t see them.

for you and for your friend Hanging

Men who call themselves women rape and muder at the same rate as men because (sit down for this one Rat) theyre still men.

Males and females do not commit the same amount of crime. Nowhere near.

98% of sexual assaults are commited by males.
No one is saying males should be banned from the streets.

Just they should not be in female spaces, where females may be vunerable or need to undress.