Would you really say this women has to pee in the mens toilets?

[letsseethanshallwe]

There is so many threads on mumsnet about how transwomen should not be allowed in womens bathrooms because of the threat of attack ect. KNow I have someone very close in my family who is transgender (FTM) they pass as a man easily, so when these threads come up i always relate them to him, if he was to walk into a womens bathroom people would think it was extremly wrong, but thats what people are suggesting because hes chromosones say hes a women. I do understand the argument of a transwomen who dosent pass as a women atall to no use the womens toliets, but it seems to me that people seem to think that evrey transwomen wont pass. SO attached i have a picture of a youtuber who is trans, would you really see her be put in a mens toliets, that wouls surely plass her in a lot of danger.
Or do you think she should still use the mens. I'm genuilly intrested. Ive name changed recently and done another thread on a simal topic that got no replies. I just want to see were your argument lies

letssee the middle of the country is still going to be a huge problem if you're coming from Devon or Carlisle. And the fact remains that transwomen want to be seen as women, not transwomen. They want to be affirmed by sharing spaces with natal women.

We already have women only spaces and services. We don't need any 'small steps to get there', you just have to stop forcing women to deal with them being mixed sex.

Make the men's unisex and leave women alone.

Why would "she" be at risk in the men's toilets?
First of all, she is a man.
Secondly, is she at risk because shes so convincing at being a woman? Because I disagree.
Is it because she's made herself look like a ridiculous sexualised version of what they think a woman should look like? Well that's their own fault.
Not sure whether to call the person a she or what.

I think the idea is that because she looks like a strange approximation of a sex doll then men won't be able to resist her if she pisses in the mens.

Aren't single sex toilets a bit dated?

I don’t think anyone is saying men won’t be able to resist her. Just that she would go unnoticed in the ladies but not in the men’s. I personally think she’s quite unattracrive looking but unquestionably looks biologically female to me if I didn’t know otherwise. I’ve seen people who are biologically female who look much more male (and God help them in the women’s toilets there would be mn’ers queueing up to question their right to be in there).
I still haven’t seen one post that suggests how someone who looks like the person in the op could practically be prevented from using the ladies toilets to ensure they remain 100% biologically female. So people can moan all they want - there is no way of keeping it a completely biologically female space.

People really think transwoman don’t pass. These are the ladies from the uks first trans beauty pageant. Just another small example. No one in the real world would tell them to use a mans toilet.

Why should they not use a male toilet? Because they have long hair and wear bikinis? Is that truly what you think of when you hear the word Female?

The average height for women in the UK is about 5"4.
What is the average height if that group?

And how do you propose stopping someone who looks like a woman from using the female toilet if they choose to.

Bumsex (great name) of course theres no way to stop men entering female spaces.

We cant stop the 85000 rapes males commit. We cant stop them murdering 2 females a week.

That doesnt mean we stop trying and give up, does it.

Yes loos are hard to police. But hospital wards, shelters, refuges and prisons arent.

Wow they must be female because they have their boobs out and are wearing extensions, I didn't realise you had to look like a sex worker in order to be a female.
I wonder if they can ever have a day where they don't wear makeup like normal women do, oh of course they can't, because then you would 100 percent see that they are in fact a man in a wig.

Is it because she's made herself look like a ridiculous sexualised version of what they think a woman should look like? Well that's their own fault.

You must be joking, right?

She simply looks like any number of young women around today. If you don't get out much I assure you, she does.

I assume they all dress themselves in the morning; do you think any harm that comes to them on account of how they present themselves is their "fault" too?

I can't believe it's such a taxing thing to imagine why she might be more at risk in the men's than any other woman. It's trans/homophobia, folks. Has no-one ever noticed the angry reaction of men "tricked" into fancying women who are "really men"? Well let me tell you, it's real. And it makes some men furious!

If you're a woman in the men's, the guys might very well do what it seems many women here would do - say, "alright love, reckon you're in the wrong room, get yourself off to the ladies". If the response is, "no, I'm definitely meant to be here"... well you'd better hope they're not only not a sex offender, but also not a homophobe or transphobe either.

Now I don't think trans women are necessarily safer in the ladies these days, because apparently trans women make some women just as angry as they do some men these days (there's a name for that). Presumably they use the women's simply because they are women. If not to you, they are to them.

Its lovely that people want to be nice and inclusive. You dont get to erase other peoples safety in the name of your inclusivity.
Its going to end with a massive backlash from the Right against all LGB people, wake up and smell the covofe.

I didn't realise you had to look like a sex worker in order to be a female.

Oooooh, you're that kind of "feminist". Sex worker = some other kind of woman, not like an actual woman.

I wonder if they can ever have a day where they don't wear makeup like normal women do

Women who wear makeup every day aren't "normal" women then? Anyone else not "normal" so we can add them to sex workers and makeup wearers?

You're a massive genderist, you know that?

I assume they all dress themselves in the morning; do you think any harm that comes to them on account of how they present themselves is their "fault" too?

Well no, because a woman who is a woman wouldn't be in the men's toilets would she? Only a man who is pretending to be a woman would find themselves in this situation.

She should of course use the womens toilets! I'd be afraid for her safety in a men's toilet. She's very pretty too

Rat you have been told this many times, but males do not have the right to re define what woman means.

Secondly, your argument seems to hinge on the fact males can be violent. Yes. We know.

Thats why we have female spaces. Males need to fix this one themselves, like women did.

You dont get to erase other peoples safety

Every single statistic points to safety not being a valid concern in regards to toilets. You may think inclusive toilets will make you unsafe, but the actual evidence says otherwise.

However investing a bit in upgrading facilities would make everyone feel much more comfortable about the whole thing, I'm sure.

It will not be the fault of trans people if intolerant people become more intolerant; that will all be on intolerant people. Be the change you want to see! (Read the phrase on here, liked it.)

Oooooh, you're that kind of "feminist". Sex worker = some other kind of woman, not like an actual woman.

I'm going to assume you're just trying tk twist my words (and failing) rather than lacking understanding.

I'm pointing out that they always go for a certain look don't they? I can't be bothered to address your makeup comment properly. I am pointing out that a real woman looks like a woman, without ridiculous amounts of sex doll makeup.

If safety is not a valid concern in loos then why on earth would males need to use the female loos?

What possible reason would a male have to go in the female loos?

Rat you have been told this many times, but males do not have the right to re define what woman means

Hahaha, you make me laugh surely you've noticed by now I'm the sort of woman who simply will not be "told"

Secondly, your argument seems to hinge on the fact males can be violent. Yes. We know.

No it doesn't. It really doesn't. I really don't know why you'd reply to me if you're not going to actually read what I've written, but I don't mind I suppose. I was pointing out it's pretty startlingly unempathetic that no-one on this thread was able to imagine a single reason why a trans woman might be more at risk in the gents than any other woman.

Well no, because a woman who is a woman wouldn't be in the men's toilets would she? Only a man who is pretending to be a woman would find themselves in this situation.

So women must look like women and men must look like men, or else you're all just asking for trouble, right?

Do you know what a genderist is?

So you are the sort of woman who thinks males have every right to define what makes a woman.

All males are at risk from other males.
What Im confused about is why this has become an issue for fenales to solve.

Can you explain that?

Every single statistic points to safety not being a valid concern in regards to toilets. You may think inclusive toilets will make you unsafe, but the actual evidence says otherwise.

That's just incorrect.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

I'm pointing out that they always go for a certain look don't they?

You'd think I'd know, I used to be one.

What do sex workers harness when they work? Femininity. What is femininity? The stereotypical cultural appearance of being female, which within a patriarchal society is highly geared towards the male gaze and their perception of sexiness.

I mean no-one's surprised by that.

But you know who else might like "femininity"? Women. They might, you know, like it, just because. Not because they're "up for it", or "asking for it", or because they want men to find them sexy, just because they like it.

I really think you need to have a long hard think about why you feel the way you do about women and femininity, and particularly how you seem to feel about sex workers.

I hardly ever wear makeup BTW.