Would you really say this women has to pee in the mens toilets?

[letsseethanshallwe]

There is so many threads on mumsnet about how transwomen should not be allowed in womens bathrooms because of the threat of attack ect. KNow I have someone very close in my family who is transgender (FTM) they pass as a man easily, so when these threads come up i always relate them to him, if he was to walk into a womens bathroom people would think it was extremly wrong, but thats what people are suggesting because hes chromosones say hes a women. I do understand the argument of a transwomen who dosent pass as a women atall to no use the womens toliets, but it seems to me that people seem to think that evrey transwomen wont pass. SO attached i have a picture of a youtuber who is trans, would you really see her be put in a mens toliets, that wouls surely plass her in a lot of danger.
Or do you think she should still use the mens. I'm genuilly intrested. Ive name changed recently and done another thread on a simal topic that got no replies. I just want to see were your argument lies

I don't know who she is and whether she's a woman or not.

I don't assume looking like a living female stereotype means that you are a woman these days.

I’m a fish so I’m going to demand entrance to the local aquarium.

What makes him a woman? Because he has long blonde hair and is wearing lipstick?? In that case I am not a woman as I have short hair and don’t wear make up, maybe I should go in the men’s?

In all my 74 years I have never seen a woman’s bits on display in a public lav. I believe that, in the Gents, most blokes get their penises out and stand at a urinal to pee.
This indicates to me that a woman identifying as a man would have more problems than vice versa. If someone, outwardly female, comes into the ladies, goes into a cubicle, pees, hand washes and leaves it would never occur to me that she was other than a woman unless she started to wave her cock about.
It would be a problem in communal showers or changing rooms though.
Just keep your private parts private, no problem.

Why should she be in danger any more than say my 10 and 12 year old boys who need to use toilets matching their biological sex?

YABU

And I don’t see why the answer to perceived male violence is for females to give up their spaces.

Presumably she's in danger because she's such a prize.

Where is the OP? This couldn't have been a ploppy GF thread, could it?

Beyond this, this (tortured) statement in the OP "There is so many threads on mumsnet about how transwomen should not be allowed in womens bathrooms because of the threat of attack ect." cannot be left to stand unchallenged. No one has ever said this.

Finally, the biggest problem I have with 'Eden the Doll' (the person this thread is about) is that medical ethics allowed a male born person to be transformed into something that actually looks like a sex doll - how could this be allowed? What are we (the US) teaching in medical schools especially re ethics? I'm also concerned that Eden the Doll (and the person that Eden the Doll was wanted specifically to be turned into a living doll) sees femininity as about posing in porn stances and has entries on pornhub. This is not what a woman is.

Yeah, my heart bleeds for her.

I turned myself into the approximation of a sex doll now I'm too scared to use the mens loos

Diddums

What makes a woman?

Looks?

@spannablue what is a woman? How is this man a woman?

Haven't caught up on all the thread, but wondered if I'm the only person amused by the OP's posting name?

Shame OP made a mistake in their name. Ruins their point somewhat.

Actually where I live rugby club is mixed until age 12

Key word being until. Why do you think male and female don’t play against each other after that?

Well, the person in the OP is well over 12.

Sorry, ignore my post, I misread something.

Always the implication that "this person is doing Woman better than you ugly slobs". 🙃

hi all, i do have DC's so havent been glued to the screen!! My username is a name change ive had for a while it wasn't particular for this thread but i see why you find it funny. I didn't write this post to say look i've got a really good argument cause i don't. I just wanted to see what people thought from a slightly diffrent stance.
There was a post a few pages back about the confusion of prounouns I have a very close family member who is male to female (he) and then theres the exmaple in my post who is male to female. Sorry just two diffrent examples in a post.
It seems because of my post people belive im like the anti-femanist no im not, I have my own stance which is this;
I agree three toliets is the way to go male, female and gender neutral (fluid ect) which could also be used by people who are worried to go into the toilets assigned to there sex for any reason, I agree it goes beyond toliets in terms of sport i believe that at an absolute basis, if this is the way sport is going which looks likly, hormone levels should be tested at be at the same level of those competing, if there not you dont compete or compete in your biological sex, It should defintly still count as a MH condition coming from my family member they needed that support as they got so depressed they were self harming and expressed suicidal thoughts because they were so confused and scared, it was hart breaking to watch, the MH teams intialy adressed these issues rather than the gender issues which i felt was right. Prison, I really agree most of your points as prisons have the most vunrable and dangerous in our society, if self ID was not to be agreed which i think is right as this means people go through a slighlty more rigiouriuos assemnet, if a person has a GRC they go to those toliets, prisons and sport events ect, we cant ignore that legislation at the moment, if not with prison in particular they should NOT go to womens, i think they could convert a prison into a transwomen wing and a transman wing, this is better for them and others. This is obviously my opinion.
Thank you for the replies, I cant believe theres is so many! its been an intresting debate!
Please respect each others opinions.

if this is the way sport is going which looks likly, hormone levels should be tested

No that doesn’t work.

A man retains a male physiology regardless of how much you reduce his testosterone. He has on average deeper rib cage, bigger lungs, bigger heart, a higher VOmax, longer levers (limbs.) the muscle attachments on his bones are more robust, the angle of his thighs is narrower due to his pelvis. Lowered testosterone does absolutely bugger all to change that. If you pick a male and female runner, and match them for height, weight and roughly for build the man will always be stronger.

Lowering testosterone does not make having men in women’s sport fair.

No men in women’s sport. Men who do enter women’s sport are cheats.

Do you remember all the fuss about Oscar pistorius entering able bodied races? The debate was whether his blades have him a physiological advantage and it was poured over endlessly - mechanical analyses etc were done.

And yet men, with all their physical advantage? On you go lads! It’s only girls sport eh?

Total double standard. Disgraceful cheating and disgraceful attitude towards female athletes by athletics bodies. Shame on them.

If someone 'passes' noone would know anyway. Before TRAs started acting the way they are, even those that didn't pass but were obviously trans were ok by most people. The self ID nonsense has hardened people opinions. Women did not start this.

sorry to ofend so much bowl i was just commenting that its a place to start! Its very unlikly its going to go from letting men into sport to not atall in a short amount of time, its more realistic to say small steps need to be made towards biological women only things.

I thought “passing” was meant to be transphobic anyway? Is their argument the person would be a woman even if they had a big beard because it’s about how they feel, not look?

its more realistic to say small steps need to be made towards biological women only things.

No, it's the other way around. Things were 'biological women only' and they've suddenly changed. They need to change back.

With the example of male toilet cleaners, not only do they have signs warning you that there might be male toilet cleaners on duty, these aren't random strangers they are people at work and could easily be identified if they acted inappropriately. It's not ideal but women have the option of not using the facilities if they wish. This isn't the same thing at all as any person who says that they are a woman being allowed into any loo. Unless women who are uncomfortable are supposed to just plan their lives around going home to use the loo when needed?

letsseethan I think the problem with having a prison wing for all transwomen and one for all transmen is interesting but there are some problems still. For one, transwomen don't tend to want to be with transwomen - they want to be with natal women. Secondly where would you put the trans prison? It would mean that many trans people would have to serve their sentences a very long way away from their homes, which is a particular problem if they have children.

beef In the middle of the country perhaps? i guess thats a choice they would have to make, that would show they were also completly commited to living in the opposite gender. It has been something ive thought about for a while as many trans people would probably prefer to be with people with simaler issues especially in a building such as prison