Would you really say this women has to pee in the mens toilets?

[letsseethanshallwe]

There is so many threads on mumsnet about how transwomen should not be allowed in womens bathrooms because of the threat of attack ect. KNow I have someone very close in my family who is transgender (FTM) they pass as a man easily, so when these threads come up i always relate them to him, if he was to walk into a womens bathroom people would think it was extremly wrong, but thats what people are suggesting because hes chromosones say hes a women. I do understand the argument of a transwomen who dosent pass as a women atall to no use the womens toliets, but it seems to me that people seem to think that evrey transwomen wont pass. SO attached i have a picture of a youtuber who is trans, would you really see her be put in a mens toliets, that wouls surely plass her in a lot of danger.
Or do you think she should still use the mens. I'm genuilly intrested. Ive name changed recently and done another thread on a simal topic that got no replies. I just want to see were your argument lies

Datun glad you turned up EggplantsForever there really are no words for your naïveté and ignorance. Are you a flat earther too?

Isn't an eggplant emoji for cock?

Got penis? Take it to the men's toilet.

Did anyone answer the question that was posed upthread?
As in how are you supposed to police that?
Do we have hoo hoo and willy bouncers on the door? Pants Patrol?
How would you know?

Oh look, thread descending into personal attacks against someone who disagrees with you and has a differing opinion.
Why are these threads so fucking childish? People are allowed to disagree with you you know instead of calling them names.

Verbeena, humans are sexually dimorphic.

He also plays football with girls, who are way better players.

I bet the girls he plays against tend to be older than him (here girls can play in mixed teams up to two years below their normal age group, so a U15 female player can play in a U13 mixed team).

Didn't the England woman's football team lose in a friendly against the England Boys team.

And hasn't it been said that if the Williams sisters competed against men they wouldn't even make it into the top 100 tennis players.

Men are physically better at sport. It's not because woman just don't try hard enough or don't belive in themselves, they have different bodies to us.

People are allowed to disagree with you you know instead of calling them names

If you mean me, people pretending not to have a penis based agenda, whilst simultaneously having a name that suggests 'penis forever', is a point of note, not a personal attack.

Shouldn't we have had a Public Service Announcement by now?

Did anyone answer the question that was posed up thread? As in how are you supposed to police that?

It shouldnt need to be policed really should it. As people with penises know they shouldn't be in the women's toilets / safe spaces anyway. Although, assuming that they're going to walk right in anyway (exactly the sort of red flag males we don't want in those spaces) then they wouldn't be difficult to spot. There's not many at all that pass well enough not to be noticed.

Shouldn't we have had a Public Service Announcement by now?

Is that code for some feminism board in thing? As no idea what that's supposed to mean but seen it said before.

There's not many at all that pass well enough not to be noticed

Oh come on. A lot won't "pass", no, but a lot will too.
What makes you an expert in being able to spot a transwoman at a blink?
What if you got it wrong? Would you believe them and decide they're good enough to be let through the door?

What makes you an expert in being able to spot a transwoman at a blink?

Most women are an expert at spotting men, however they present. It's called survival. Even my 11 year old daughter is bloody good at it.

No one is claiming to be able to spot a transwoman, Verbeena.

We can, however, tell who is male or female.

I can tell, they look like men trying to be women.

Still wondering what it is that happens when men say they are women, that removes all risk from that person, bearing in mind the whole world classes men as a potential threat to women. Verbeena, perhaps you can shed light on this?

No one is claiming to be able to spot a transwoman, Verbeena. We can, however, tell who is male or female

Play about with words all you like, but you're saying that you would be able to tell who was a transwoman and who wasn't just by looking at them.
Nobody would know everyone however much of an expert you think you are.
What if you had a lapse in your judgement and definition of "passing?"
A biological woman and therefore in your eyes a "proper woman" would feel like shit if you turned her away or thought she looked too "blokey."

Well there's the Adams apple, the ridiculous voice, the manly features, the manly walk...

Most women are an expert at spotting men, however they present. It's called survival

Well this is where we're going to have to differ, as being able to spot men is a survival tactic?
I'm not in that frame of mind. The fact that someone is male doesn't mean they're automatically mean they're out to get you.
That's a really unhealthy mindset to be in. They're people too, just like we are.
I don't give a shit if that makes people cry handmaiden or MRA or whatever. It makes me care about people.

I don't get the point of the picture unless we're meant to judge which toilet someone goes to by how feminine-pretty someone is. I know plenty of dudes who I think are more feminine-pretty and look better in a dress than me, doesn't make me less female or them less male.

Plenty of women look nothing like that and unless some want to argue that we don't belong in women's loos unless we somehow 'present' as our own sex, I don't get the point of focusing on how a transwoman looks and making that the central point of why they should be allowed. That's a subjective call. I mean, I don't think anyone would argue that women who don't have a feminine gender presentation would be safer in men's toilets, so why is it relevant here?

I've been in women's loos in suits, wrestling unitards (which leaves little to question my sex but it's could be considered presenting as male), wearing a range of what's sold as men's clothes - I'm still female. While I think single-stall unisex facilities alongside single-sex ones - as well as more places having attendants to help deal with incidents (not policing, cause yeah that's not going to work and people should self-police, but it may prevent and help deal with incidents with proper attendants) - would help so many people and it's frustrating how much resistance there is to it by those who actually have the power to change these things, I think not turning the toilet debate into what reads a lot like 'they belong in the women's loo because this is how women present themselves' might help a lot of us a lot more. I mean, seriously, pretty much any international organization that works in the area discusses the importance of single-sex spaces to enable girls and women in public spaces, how is the UK somehow entirely different to the rest of the world that how we present is now more important?

Having done contact sports with men and mixed-sex options with full information on the risks is an option some women enjoy, I don't think it helps girls and women in sports to make mixed sex be the only option (and really don't think it helps the guys much either). I'd love more girls in wrestling and contact sports and even having done it, I would never recommend my daughters wrestle in boys. Sure, they might be able to win, I did and so did others I know, but the road to get there isn't one I want them to have to take. I really don't get this shift that single-sex options are meant to be bad and something to do away with and proving how open we are by being against them which is how many are coming across rather than an option that helps and is enjoyed by many people and can exist alongside mixed-sex all-gender options quite merrily.

So if males are not a threat, why cant all males, regardless of gender, use male spaces?

The fact that someone is male doesn't mean they're automatically mean they're out to get you

We know that. But how do you know which ones are or not?

What is it you think happens to men, when they identify as women, that changes them from a class that means they are a potential threat, to a safe bet? You seem to think it is all ok, so please put all us silly women out of our misery. Surely this should be easy for you?

Ahh I see we’ve moved on to the disadvantage faced by a tiny number of elite sports people now. Because that’s definitely a huge concern and not just a stick to beat trans people with.
The sports issue will be sorted just like when there is ever any other controversy over whether some athletes may have an advantage be that from doping, being intersex, using certain prosthetics (blades etc).
I’m sure the people on here who are so passionate about the integrity of elite sport will have a lot to say about those issues as well

Ahh I see we’ve moved on to the disadvantage faced by a tiny number of elite sports people now. Because that’s definitely a huge concern and not just a stick to beat trans people with

The 5 out of 6 girls who lost college scholarships recently, to boys competing in girls races, no concern whatsoever? Interesting.

I don't give a shit if that makes people cry handmaiden or MRA or whatever. It makes me care about people.

Apart from women. And children. You don't care much about them then do you. In order to be oh so woke. Never mind. That's your problem. Other woman do care and will continue to fight to save women's rights and spaces.

The fact that someone is male doesn't mean they're automatically mean they're out to get you. That's a really unhealthy mindset to be in. They're people too, just like we are.

Indeed they are. And not all of them are out to get me this is true. But with self ID comes risk. And the risk of male violence does not decrease just because someone is now identifying as a woman. Not only that, but the risk of assault / voyeurism etc increases significantly when men have access to the same safe spaces that women use. That's not OK. And to be clear, you don't get to choose on behalf of other woman either.

Mild concern I’d say but I’m not a huge follower of college athletics.
I just find it interesting that people on here who are so passionate about level playing fields in elite sport tend to have nothing to say on subjects like doping. It’s almost as if fairness isn’t the issue and trans bashing is.