Would you really say this women has to pee in the mens toilets?

[letsseethanshallwe]

There is so many threads on mumsnet about how transwomen should not be allowed in womens bathrooms because of the threat of attack ect. KNow I have someone very close in my family who is transgender (FTM) they pass as a man easily, so when these threads come up i always relate them to him, if he was to walk into a womens bathroom people would think it was extremly wrong, but thats what people are suggesting because hes chromosones say hes a women. I do understand the argument of a transwomen who dosent pass as a women atall to no use the womens toliets, but it seems to me that people seem to think that evrey transwomen wont pass. SO attached i have a picture of a youtuber who is trans, would you really see her be put in a mens toliets, that wouls surely plass her in a lot of danger.
Or do you think she should still use the mens. I'm genuilly intrested. Ive name changed recently and done another thread on a simal topic that got no replies. I just want to see were your argument lies

EggplantsForever are you new to this debate or just really naive?

perverse

There have been a few posters that have said that they dont see a problem with men and women competing in sports together

Not sure its naivety

Anyone who actually competes knows their sport is either mixed sex or not, and why that is.

If you want to share bathrooms and other spaces with Logan Kyle, or Karen White, no one is stopping you. Just make the mens room mixed sex and leave the women alone.

EggplantsForever well great for your daughter, did I mention climbing in my post?
But if you want to throw your daughter into playing rugby with men, who am I to disagree. Hope she is old enough to tell you no.

I actually don’t have a problem with my daughter competing with boys (even those who aren’t transgender). I don’t think she will necessarily lose.

Wut?

Srsly?

You cannot be that stupid.

That's fine if a woman / girl doesn't mind losing to a man / boy, e.g. in sport that's just for fun and performance doesn't matter.
In sports where physical strength and speed is an advantage, boys post-puberty and men have a clear advantage.

In a typical gym setting - where we do sometimes have competitions - the sex separation is shown clearly in the scores for women and men.
I was chuffed some years ago to win the women's pressup competition and be far ahead of the field; however, the top 10 men all beat me by a wide margin

The differences in what the top men and top women lift at that level is huge
At the elite level, the difference has been calculated by sports professionals to be "only" about 15% - the top 10 women in the world are separated in many fields by a fraction of 1%

The difference between the sexes is far more important in contact sports such as boxing and MMA,
where we have already seen the savage beatings transwomen like Fallon Fox dish out to women, with great rejoicing at the injuries by their woman-hating TRA supporters

Got penis? Take it to the men's toilet.

I am not new to the debate. I also suspect that my position re: trans has a lot in common with yours.
I just disagree with some of the arguments.
My son regularly participates in mixed timed runs. Guess what, some girls run faster than him.
He also plays football with girls, who are way better players.
When my daughter grows up I will encourage her to measure herself against everyone, not just other girls.
It’s a very different thing to say that a former second rate male weightlifter should not compete against women .

What also gets forgotten is that letting men into womens' spaces automatically excludes most Muslim women and girls

You mentioned running.
Actually where I live rugby club is mixed until age 12.
I am kind of ok with that, except I don’t really approve of rugby in general.

Squirels tongue in cheek solution works for me. Makes more sense than a dress. Can't remember the last time i wore one!

I agree with eggplants about football, as it is something I know a bit about. After 14/15 it changes though. From what I see the girls seem to be technically better but post puberty strength is an issue. I think it benefits girls to play against the boys & vice Versa.

Yeah but what "football" is eggplant talking about, American Football or Rest fo the world Football?

When my daughter grows up I will encourage her to measure herself against everyone, not just other girls

Lol. When your daughter grows up, women's sports won't exist.

I dunno. I just meant soccer! Ha! My son gets to play against some elite teen girl teams & it's amazing to watch. I love seeing the boys underestimate their opponents, even though I obv want them to win.

I am talking about the English football, lol.
Sports like American football should be either kept separate or introduce categories by weight. (Although if you ask me they should simply be banned due to the danger of head injury-but this is veering to far off topic) :)

@sackrifice
I wish...but the sexism is too deeply ingrained for that to happen so soon. Will take more than a few men deciding to “become women”.

What I am reasonably sure about is the demise of the women’s toilets (and urinals).

By the way, in many team sports “strong” girl players play against boys and in boys teams. Many events in running and swimming are mixed far into teenage years even now. Saying as someone who actually competed and has a child who competes.

I wish...but the sexism is too deeply ingrained for that to happen so soon. Will take more than a few men deciding to “become women

In the USA, 5 out of the 6 'winners' is a recent female race were men.So 5 girls lost out on college sponsorships as men took their places. Hurrah for the guys, eh? it's what we all want, women being displaced by men.

I have no idea what your agenda is, but you seem almost slavering over giving away women's sports. What is the point of any female competing in anything if a man can pop along and win, when he couldn't win against other men? I mean, you have to be pretty stupid to be so excited about this.

Did the OP ever come back?

What is the point of any female competing in anything if a man can pop along and win, when he couldn't win against other men? I mean, you have to be pretty stupid to be so excited about this.

Stupid. Or horribly sexist. Some women will do anything to centre men.

"Men need to accept men that like dresses and make up " and stop making them feel uncomfortable about adopting whatever presentation they feel like.

Too right! how did it ever come to this - where it's the norm to assume that women have to have males in with them because we can't trust men around males who present differently?

THIS is what Harrop and co should be encouraging - "Hey fellow men, how about we DON'T poke fun at guys in slap and skirts in the loos or changing rooms? Embarrassing innit that women have had to budge over just because WE can't control ourselves? let's start a bit of a campaign here...."

and the tea-drinking, cake-eating, dog-walkers of north London were traumatised for ever.

(spoiler, they weren't)

On dear lord. Anyone who thinks men competing as, or against, women in sport, is ok, is an idiot.

Dear @Datun, the world is richer and more complicated than you can possibly imagine. Not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.

I am sorry (genuinely!) your life experiences lead you to think you will loose to any man in any physical competition. It’s simply not true. Even about you personally. There are men who are weaker than you, who run slower.