About music practice?

[longestlurkerever]

How pushy are you when it comes to music practice? DD is 7 and has violin lessons at school. She's supposed to practise at least four times a week but it's always a battle and I'm fed up with it. I'm happy enough just to continue paying for lessons and gently encourage her to practise and shrug if she doesn't, but I think her teacher is getting fed up and I get lots of PA notes in her book and texts. I try getting tough and making her practise with threats etc but tbh it's no fun for anyone and feels a bit ridiculous. At the moment she's reading a book and I found myself threatening that she wouldn't be allowed sparklers after tea unless she put her book down and practised, then stopped myself as realised I sounded ridiculous. What do you do if gentle encouragement doesn't work? Is cancelling the lessons the only answer? It feels a shame as they are affordable and she enjoys practising now and again.

Irvine, a child wanting to commit and a child with the ability to do so completely independently is not the same thing. Plenty of adults need a nudge to get on with things they want to do too come to that.

my son is nearly 19 was like pulling teeth at this age - he has played with the LSO Sir Simon Rattle conducting, Albert Hall, Royal Festival Hall - if their teachers have the patience worth it - just sorry he turned down a free degree to do music

That's the thing, Catkind. The situation OP is in is that her dd doesn't want to commit, and her mum is ok with it because she can afford to waste money. But for some, school music lesson can be the only choice to get access for music lessons. She is actually preventing others by holding the slot, when there is waiting list for it.
I think there is a big gap between people who can afford, and people who can't, and people who have reasonable experience like you, and people who doesn't, like me.

Don't know if anyone has suggested this yet but is there a string group or orchestra she could join? My DD took up the violin at 5 and she had been playing only weeks when the school music coordinator suggested she join the school string group. She was far from a musical genius! Had only just got past a bit of plucking but they had a very inclusive group that accommodated all abilities.

Later she joined a music club that had a string group for beginners to grade 3 and then an orchestra from grade 3. Definitely playing in a group with other people made it more fun and gave her more incentive to practice.

I often thought she didn't practice as much as she should - when she was young she seemed to spend more time faffing about with the stand and stuff than actually playing. She got a few grade exams but not especially high. But, hey, she was doing it for fun and, in her 20s, after a few years gap she has gone back to it and joined an orchestra.

Sorry I haven't RTentireFT.

I just wanted to jump in and say (if someone hasn't already said it) it's an idea to get someone to accompany her either on the piano or as a duet. If you don't play yourself then get in a 6th form student, or even someone younger, to do a session with her now and again. It really makes the difference.

My boy was a lazy git and got his grade 8. Goodness knows how.

She got to grade 7 eventually but I do wonder how good she would be if we were stricter

To be fair, grade 7 is pretty good! Unless she wanted to be a professional musician that's probably good enough to join a good amateur orchestra for fun,

If she genuinely does want to play (and it seems she does), and you think there may be SEN issues in the mix, it would be a shame to take away the lessons. Even if it means changing approach and possibly teacher. I've found music for my ASD son has been an absolute godsend. He doesn't practice as much as I'd like but it has become a huge part of his life and, through playing in ensembles both in and out of school, it's given him a structured social life as well as a form of escapism. Despite battles about practice, and cross words on both sides, I thank our lucky stars every single day for the musical education he has. I hope it'll help him in adulthood too.

Ours only do 10-15 mins a day but they know they have to do that and homework to 'unlock' their video game time. They're fine with it and enjoy it when they get into it, it's just that they'd procrastinate forever if allowed!

I think it's a bit harsh to say she doesn't want to commit and I am taking the slot from someone else, though I take the point and presumably the teacher will say as much if she thinks this is the case. Having thought about it some more, I think she does want to, she just has issues preventing her from picking it up each day. Maybe she is too young, or maybe it's SEN, but I'm going to give her a bit longer and try to help her with this barrier somehow, as I think it could be a very useful lesson for her if she manages it.

Why not let them learn their favourite pop songs? This helped my daughter practice drumming and makes it more relevant. You can buy sheet music and there are YouTube tutorials on line. Make music fun, not a chore and kids will keep it up for longer.

My kids practice daily and are getting pretty good (DD did grade 4 at 9 last year). Once they hit a certain point they get to see the rewards and it becomes self-sustaining. Not that they don't need nudging, but it's certainly not a battle. BUT. But. It only works if there's a certain level of investment in their instrument. My DS started with violin and it was a disaster. He refused point blank to practice. We waited a few years, switched to clarinet and he's now making amazing progress. So maybe the instrument isn't the right one for your DD.

Second thought. I had piano and oboe lessons all the way through school. I barely practiced, but did end up at grade 8 standard on both, more or less. I've got great pleasure from playing music, alone and with others, my entire life. I'm so, so glad my parents didn't make music lessons conditional on practice. Having said that, I do rather wish they'd pushed a tiny bit - I'd have got good much faster and got more pleasure out of it. It's such a hard balance. You need to push a certain amount but only as far as your child is willing to accept it! We aren't usually ones for that kind of thing, but we found that star charts were a great way of getting the initial motivation going.

(to the 'grade 7 is pretty good' comment above. Yes it is. But all grade 7-8s are not created equal I'm certainly a competent enough player, but the kind of grade 8 that is truly proficient and polished (i.e. a distinction in the exam and able to sight-read pretty much anything first off) is a very different kettle of fish. You can get to 'competent enough' grade 8 just by force of being reasonably musical and by number of years of lessons (10 or so in my case). Getting to a very solid grade 8 will definitely take sustained practice on top of that.

I nagged DD to practise recorder, but as I said, school won't let her take her trombone home to practice. I'm not sure how any of the club are supposed to progress, playing for 45 minutes once a week.

Maybe she is too young, or maybe it's SEN as I said above, according to our very strict and demanding violin teacher, it is in fact completely normal. I don't agree that for a 7 year old she is taking up a place which could be used by another child but I do think it might be that it will help if you were more hands on with the practising. Along with minor bribery.

There are different methods of teaching, incidentally, if things do go wrong with this teacher. Our teacher wants to follow the colourstrings method which progresses technique before reading music for example, so in a way it is easier for dc. Dc has to attend a different class at the same music school learning how to read music and developing musicality.

I am quite hands on with the practising, though I'm no expert. I don't know where I gave the impression that I just let her get on with it, though that was her request when I asked her what I could do differently.

I played two instruments from the age of 6 and didn’t really enjoy practicing until I was about 10 and could play real pieces, so I can sympathise with your daughter.

I eventually grew to love both instruments (especially once I began to play in a group). I think it’s a lot to expect from a 7 year old to want to practice regularly. Surely she can just play for fun for now, why the need to take it so seriously? Yes, it might mean that she’s behind if she later decides to become a professional but most children learn instruments for fun, not as a future career option. If she does develop a passion later on I’m sure she’ll be desperate to play as much as possible and will make up for lost time at that point.

For now, just let her enjoy the lessons and the practice will come eventually. If this teacher doesn’t have enough patience to deal with young children then could you maybe find her another, more relaxed teacher? Once she’s good enough to play in an orchestra she’ll become much more engaged. Good luck OP, I would take the more relaxed approach until she’s about 10 if I were you.

My DH is a peripatetic instrument teacher.

The violin is a difficult instrument to master and she will not master it without practice. Are you sure the teachers notes are being PA or just stating facts? The teachers will write in their books about progress being made so if she is not making any they will state that and the reasons why.

Essentially a pupil who isn’t practising will have a very similar lesson every week and go over similar things which gets boring for the pupil (and teacher) very quickly. A bored pupil is not fun to teach. It’s up to you if you want to continue paying for lessons of course.

Teachers who only want pupils willing to go through grades are being short sighted as there is a significant number of them who just want to learn for fun.

Interesting that she enjoys the lesson but not practising. Is it the right instrument for her?

Ignore comments about her taking up a spot that another pupil could be using. Waiting lists are dependent on so many variables: amount of teachers going into the school and their timetables, the availability of the room that is being used at the school, the number of pupils having lessons, the size of the school etc etc.

Sorry I was a bit mean to say what I said. I do wish your dd enjoys learning and teacher find the way to teach her. Music should be for anyone who wants to learn.

Really learning to play the violin is incredibly rewarding on so many levels, but, to people saying that music should be fun- the problem is that playing the violin once a week at a lesson really isn't much fun. There are lots of more fun things to do.

Aw thanks Irvine😊.

Clara - I know what you mean. I just think maybe I can let her be the judge of what's fun. She likes it, so she says, despite the lack of real progress. She's upset at the idea of cancelling. It'd be better if she practised more, and I'm grateful for the tips that might improve that, but I think we all agree that the drama over that is doing more harm than it's worth so the only question is whether it's unfair on the teacher or others to allow her to continue without much practice.

Interesting discussion- I often wonder whether I should try to get my students to practise. Usually I don't emphasise it too much, don't criticise them for not practising, etc, but occasionally I will have a little push to get them to do a bit more (just 10 minutes 3 or 4 times a week).

Whenever they do practise, the lessons are so much more fun, and the kids are so excited to show me what they can do that they focus much better! I blame myself for being a crappy teacher when they don't practise, but the reality is that most kids don't just prioritise practise on their own until they are a bit older, however much more rewarding it makes the lessons.

Some people have made good suggestions about how to make the whole process more fun, and I might add a few more ideas later- got to go teach now...

My daughter is 12, grade 4 violin. It’s orchestra on a Monday, lesson on Wednesday and folk group on Friday at school. She has to practice at least times a week in top of that but it’s a battle. She failed her last grade by one point, she got 99 which badly knocked her confidence which didn’t help.

Thanks Clara. I think the reality is that there is a lot to fit into a child's day. It's bathtime at 7, and by the time she's home and had a snack it's 4pm. There are playdates and brownies and swimming, and homework and tea and calling grandmas and tidying her room, and playing in the park and so on, even on the days she's not at after school club,so even when she's keen it's hard to find a proper unrushed segment of the day so when there's a lot of cajoling to do it becomes impossible. Mornings are pretty rushed too unless she gets up very early, whichid rather she didn't. Perhaps older kids go to bed later and have slightly more time? As well as having a better grasp of delayed gratification?

Sorry if I got that wrong, OP. Your dd sounds similar to my dc, and I do similar things to you - I have made several threats to stop lessons if they don't stop buggering around and pick up the violin...

I watched a youtube video to try to get a handle on what they were supposed to do (I play a wind instrument and had no clue) and it was really helpful, and I will link if you are interested.

The thing it works for us is, that ds comes in, have a snack, and first thing he does is practise during the week. It's a routine. And at the week ends, unless he has something else, 10 am is the time to practise, and right after the lunch, whenever time, it was time for practice as well.