About music practice?

[longestlurkerever]

How pushy are you when it comes to music practice? DD is 7 and has violin lessons at school. She's supposed to practise at least four times a week but it's always a battle and I'm fed up with it. I'm happy enough just to continue paying for lessons and gently encourage her to practise and shrug if she doesn't, but I think her teacher is getting fed up and I get lots of PA notes in her book and texts. I try getting tough and making her practise with threats etc but tbh it's no fun for anyone and feels a bit ridiculous. At the moment she's reading a book and I found myself threatening that she wouldn't be allowed sparklers after tea unless she put her book down and practised, then stopped myself as realised I sounded ridiculous. What do you do if gentle encouragement doesn't work? Is cancelling the lessons the only answer? It feels a shame as they are affordable and she enjoys practising now and again.

Thanks everyone. Actually once she finally picks up the thing it's not such a negative experience. It's the getting going that's hard. So even though 5-10 mins doesn't sound like much it is actually way more than that and can dominate the time we have together.

I'm having this issue with my 10 year old. In her case, I think it's the teacher - she was fine until a new teacher came in a few months ago and she'll still practice other instruments without any problem. And FWIW, if appropriate, maybe consider not telling her how to improve her practice if you can - it's really annoying. I only realised this when I started learning an instrument for the first time in my late 30s and my daughter (who's far better at it than I) kept offering helpful suggestions - it's quite demoralising. Appreciate she's only 7 though and may need guidance.

I also would encourage you not to stress too much about practice (music teacher here) obviously she will progress quicker if she does but it's not worth battling over in the grand scheme of life - I practiced very little at that age if at all.
I would also say little and often is key but if practice once a week is all she will do then it's best as soon after her lessons as possible- so that night or the next when the lesson is still fresh in her mind - this works better in my experience than waiting until the night before her next lesson

In your position, I’d suggest just 5 mins every day. That way, it’s a daily expectation rather than “is it violin practice today, ohbugger, lets have a tantrum” iyswim

This is good advice. The more routine it is the less stress. From your later post OP it sounds like you have found a good slot, hopefully that will help.

The other thing I would say based on DS who is by the sounds of it a similar personality to your DD - rewards work better than any push from me. And I don't know about your DD but for DS it has to be immediate reward, he doesn't sustain interest in sticker charts or whatever. DS gets extra screen time if he has done good practice. By which I mean not any particular time limit but get instrument out, play something, improve something. If he procrastinates too long there isn't time for the screen time, his loss. It takes heat out of it as I'm not fighting him, it's his choice and his reward.

I think either you need to speak to the teacher and come to some sort of agreement with teacher how she teaches your dd, or, if not, find another teacher who can teach your dd the way she wants.

I don't think learning music should be a chore or battle of will at young age. But I can also understand the frustration of the teacher who want pupil to practise.

The school music lesson is very handy for many, no need for ferrying for parents, and affordable price. But you say there are waiting list, so, there are children who may benefit from them, who can't get it. If the teacher is happy how she learns, then it's fine, but she isn't, since she keep emailing/texting you that she needs to practise and you are arguing about it. It's not a good match. Not fair on others who wants her slot, and not fair on teacher if you want to support her not practising as teacher requests.

The teacher maybe understanding and try to teach the way it suit your dd. But if not, best thing you can do is find the teacher who has different approach which suits the way your dd wants to.

Thanks Romany. I didn't start this post thinking that it was about SEN really. I know lots of people struggle to motivate their DC to practise. But the more people have suggested things the more I've realised that DD doesn't really respond in the same way as many children do. Rewards sometimes work but they up the stakes and can make things worse when she doesn't earn them. I've had a bit of a read and if she does have ADHD then I think catkins is right about it needing to be immediate. I'm not too angsty about the violin in itself really - if the teacher gives up on her so be it. But it's a symptom of a broader set of issues that I'm in the middle of coming to terms with.

I just don't understand why you need to give reward for something they want to do in the first place, catkind. I always made a stance, it's up to my ds, if he wanted to learn it or not. If he doesn't he can always give up. But if he wants to carry on, then he needs to practise .

To be clear, my ds has traits of ASD and ADHD too, OP.
Especially with adhd, he has unbelievable concentration on certain things if interested, "hyperfocus", one of the feature of ADHD.
I wouldn't pursue anything that doesn't interest him enough to engage, it's no point. My ds only started lesson when he was 8, and committed enough to do daily practice. I don't think it worked if it was earlier.

Lots of children don’t know ‘how’ to practise. I’m a musician and drove my teachers mad. I rarely practised. I preferred to play by ear. I did a degree which took me on the basis that I wasn’t a classical musician but once I got allocated a teacher for my instrument it became clear that the classical was being pushed. I hated it. I didn’t practise. I played regularly in a band. I was threatened with disciplinary if I didn’t drop the band. The band earned me money playing my instrument when my classmates were out getting drunk. I dropped performance in the end. I’m a natural musician and my sight reading is just as good as any piece I have badly practised for months.

I’m also a (music) teacher and a parent. My dd has just started instrument lessons and is expected to practise daily, tick it off and get me to sign and she gets a sticker. The daily argument around practise is already getting to me and she’s only had a few lessons. Possibly as she doesn’t have any proper tunes to play yet so doesn’t see the point. I’ll encourage but won’t force. I’m not giving up the lessons just yet. She won’t stick at anything if that’s the approach.
Maybe the OP could get their child to watch some YouTube videos of really good child violinists and inspire the child to practise. Or find a style of music that they enjoy listening to and get an easy violin book of tunes. I loved folk music so learned a lot out of my school lessons. Use the extra pieces they like as a carrot to practise the pieces they don’t like. Practise is boring and tedious. Especially for a 7 year old. Break it down. Hang the violin up on the bedroom wall rather than hidden away in its case?? Get them singing the tunes they have to practise - this really helps.

I played two instruments as a kid, eventually right through to my grade 8 (highest level) I didn’t mind practicing the piano but hated practicing the clarinet. However, I joined various bands and orchestras for my age which meant that I was actually practicing a lot. I got all the way through my grades like this, very little official practice at all. If your daughter enjoys playing maybe try and find a youth orchestra for her to join. Playing an instrument in a group is completely different from being forced to do boring practice at home!

longestlurker

From what you have said I think music will be a good outlet for your little girl. I also think you should persevere and definitely make music part of her life.
We are a musical family and as it was just part of our dc lives we never really thought about the benefits of them listening to lots of music, going to shows and concerts, them finding what they like, or that they don't want to play an instrument but enjoy listening to a certain style or genre.

I think whether they become musicians or not the fact there is so little provision in schools means parents need to step up ito education at least give them the resources and support.
My dd school do outreach work, the take up from local schools is poor. Many would love it but so many schools don't even have a designated music coordinator and if they have they don't have the basic resources.
It makes me so angry.

I haven't read the full thread, but my DS plays piano. He has a fab teacher and when he started, just before his 6th birthday, I asked how much he should practice thinking it would be every day. At that age she said just do 10 mins 3 or 4 times a week if you can. So we try to do that. Sometimes it ends up being more and sometimes less. He is now beginning to see that practice is worth it and often when we get down to it we practice for a lot longer. Also pick a book with great tunes in that your child will recognise. They will practise if they love the music. So we are getting a Disney tunes book and I am hoping to see a rapid improvement!! A bit of bribery helps as well of course...

I am in a similar situation, OP, and I will be reading through the thread for tips. I have a 7 year old who has just started, passionately wants to do it and teacher thinks that they make quite a nice sound, but they do not want to practice. The lessons are outside school and the teacher wants parents to sit in at this age and I have commented to the teacher that dc does not want to practice and she said it was completely normal. The teacher is otherwise very strict but the not practising thing didn't surprise or phase her at all. She said it isn't to do with dc not being keen, it is to do with how hard it is especially at the beginning.

The message I get is that for the time being I need to be involved with the practising, and that means being firm and cajoling and correcting technique. I find it really hard going, it is driving me loopy in fact, but I think it will get better when dc has the basics sorted as they will then find it easier - so at the moment that is how they stand, how they hold the bow, how the play the strings, with arm at different heights, how they do pizzicato. I am hoping that once there is a bit of muscle memory it will be easier for them to enjoy the practising.

One thing that made my ds focus on practice was mention of grade exam. Does she get motivated by the certain goals? My ds found it particularly motivating when he found out all the other thing needed for exam, like aural/scales/sight reading came really easy for him.

That's a good idea. She might go for that!

Is there a music group or ensemble that she could join op?
We're very lucky in that we have a council run music service that is amazing. There's a beginner's violin group here for your daughter's age. I've found with my two that joining a group gives them motivation as they want to keep up.
Dd 10 is in 2 bands and dd 8 is in 3. No pressure, they all do stuff at their own pace and means they're getting practice in in a fun way with other children.
Might be worth looking into?

I just don't understand why you need to give reward for something they want to do in the first place, catkind.

Like OP describes her DD, he wants to play and progress but he doesn't want to practice right this minute. He can't have both those wants. At the moment he doesn't seem to have the maturity to drive practice himself, but I don't want to set him up to fail because of it. It's mostly inertia. Which to be fair I'm guilty of myself when it comes to practice and I really really love playing and get a huge amount out of it.

I think music is actually great for reinforcing the cycle of work-progress-reward. It happens in a relatively short time frame compared to most things, at the beginning of the week they can't play the piece, at the end of the week they can. And it can always be set at the right level because it's 1:1. So hope it will help him towards becoming a more mature and resilient learner generally.

Looking for a beginner string group is great suggestion - DD has recently joined one and it's really spurred her playing on. If nothing else the time in orchestra probably doubles her playing time for the week!

And it can always be set at the right level because it's 1:1. So hope it will help him towards becoming a more mature and resilient learner generally.

Ha Ha Catkind so did I, but still waiting

Thanks. I'd forgotten about groups but I think there are a couple she could join soon.

Well it worked on me To be fair your DD seems to have learned to graft just fine Romany, just has her own priorities where to apply that skill?

Catkind, I think it really depends how well off you are, to me, the fee of 14 pounds for 20 minutes is a lot, and I am not willing to spend it if he doesn't get most out of it. That's why I never let him do music lessons before he asked for it, and made sure he needed to commit to it.

My 7yo dd plays piano. She does like it, but needs help to practice, so I sit with her. I help a bit sometimes, sometimes I am just an encouraging audience. I do help her to break the task up into little bits that are manageable to focus on. Occasionally we role play her being a famous concert pianist while I (and a collection of cuddly toys) are her audience. I make the cuddly toys request their favourite pieces (these strangely coincide with the ones dd1 needs to practice most).

Dd likes the attention, and we have got to a place where practice is part of our routine, so she doesn't resist too much. I often reward her practice by an episode of a tv show after.

Before I changed jobs we used to practice in the morning before school, which was much better as she was fresh, but sadly can't do this now.

Not overly, I reminded her each day but never enforced. She got to grade 7 eventually but I do wonder how good she would be if we were stricter

She liked orchestra more than lessons tbh and you couldn't be in the orchestra without them. She still plays now at university - playing for the bigwigs on Sunday for remembrance apparently