About music practice?

[longestlurkerever]

How pushy are you when it comes to music practice? DD is 7 and has violin lessons at school. She's supposed to practise at least four times a week but it's always a battle and I'm fed up with it. I'm happy enough just to continue paying for lessons and gently encourage her to practise and shrug if she doesn't, but I think her teacher is getting fed up and I get lots of PA notes in her book and texts. I try getting tough and making her practise with threats etc but tbh it's no fun for anyone and feels a bit ridiculous. At the moment she's reading a book and I found myself threatening that she wouldn't be allowed sparklers after tea unless she put her book down and practised, then stopped myself as realised I sounded ridiculous. What do you do if gentle encouragement doesn't work? Is cancelling the lessons the only answer? It feels a shame as they are affordable and she enjoys practising now and again.

Learning the violin is difficult however old you are. To improve, your daughter needs to practise regularly and you need to help her by encouraging her and finding a regular time. Bribes work!
I guarantee that by "leaving it relaxed" either your daughter will ask to stop lessons (because she is frustrated at her lack of progress), or the teacher will contact you and suggest politely that the violin isn't the right instrument for your daughter and you are wasting your money.

I think the teacher may be inexperienced and is applying too much pressure and expectations are too much. Children can be turned off instruments by this. I would agree one fixed practice slot for starters as a condition of continuing and take it from there. They don't all love practice but the motivation to practice will grow if there is genuine interest and progress. This is a better life lesson than being forced to do it, in my opinion.

You clearly think the teacher is putting unnecessary pressure on your daughter, that you are a "paying customer" who should be allowed to make use of the lessons in the way you see fit.

I don't think that private violin lessons are the best way to let a 7 year old have a bit of fun getting acquainted with some pieces and fooling around with musical instruments. It is frustrating to work with a child on some quite tricky things like how to hold a bow, and play in tune on a violin, and then have the child come back the next week with no memory of what you worked on the week before because she didn't do the things you carefully wrote down for her to do. It is frustrating because it makes a teacher unable to actually teach. It is also frustrating because a teacher knows that a child can't really enjoy learning the violin unless she is improving, and it is impossible to improve if the child doesn't do what the teacher asks her to do.

Of course the lessons are not for the benefit of the teacher, but a caring and decent teacher may not be comfortable if she feels that the student isn't making use of the lessons: she may feel bad that you are wasting your money, that she is wasting her time and energy, and that the child is being put off learning an instrument.

There are probably teachers who give lessons which are more geared towards general musicianship, perhaps trying a few different instruments, and something like this might be better for your family.

Thanks bastard kitty do you mean one per week?

Bribes, unfortunately, do not work well.for my DD. I have learned this to my cost. We just both get annoyed that she's not done the thing she was being bribed to do and not earned the reward. She's a tricky bugger. On the other hand she is ridiculously enthusiastic about things that she's enthusiastic about, on the other hand it's very hard to get her to do anything she's not decided herself to do. I do feel she's less keen on the violin since I got heavy handed about it. She used to practise a bit, very willingly, and now hardly ever does unless forced, and it's the bare minimum done through gritted teeth. I don't think I'd allow her to continue if she never practised but she was doing it 1-2 times per week and more if she had a performance of some kind (low key as she's very much a beginner). Since I started getting authoritarian about it this has dwindled to 0 without a battle.

I would go with once per week for starters. So for example if the lesson is on a Monday, practice on a Thursday. Have a set time and make a ritual of it. It doesn't have to be a long practice. I had a child who didn't practice for years but went very far eventually. They started to play/practice for the love of it. I think that's the key.

Can you review / examine with the teacher what books your daughter uses? There's lots of material out there to choose from and maybe she needs a slightly different fit. Would she like something with a CD accompaniment she can play along with? Or a book of Xmas carols? TV themes? Kids can get very put off by the material. Exam pieces (if she's doing any) are particularly dire.

I do feel for music teachers though. It must be soul destroying seeing kids week after week who don't practice and probably get less enthusiastic with every lesson that comes along. Paying customer or not!

I'd echo what others have said: little and often, part of a routine, lots of praise, stickers etc.

Thanks bastardkitty. This I suppose is more or less where we are at. I will try to build it up, and try a proper grown up conversation about it. I'd forgotten there is a strings group somewhere locally that she might enjoy, though I have a feeling the timing wasn't ideal.

If she says she enjoys the lessons, could you join in with the practice and make it a bit like a lesson?

This used to really annoy me as a child and tbh as an adult now, I still think I was right. I didn’t want to practise that much. I wanted to have a lesson (which was paid for) one a week and to enjoy that lesson. Maybe progress, maybe not, and practise if I felt I wanted to. In fact I often did practise but hated being forced into it as I would have done it in my own time anyway.

I was never going to be a world class musician so couldn’t see what was wrong with playing for fun. I fully understood I might not progress and was happy with that. Eventually I found a great teacher who let me play pieces of music I liked, gave me some tips and basically let me potter around on her piano once a week for fun which was great.

My dc used to practice 30 mins a day aside from rare occasions when it wasn’t possible. The school paid for the children’s lessons though and that was the commitment they stupulated. If the kids who were chosen weren’t practising enough they let someone else have a turn. It was worth doing though because dc gained a music scholarship to a really good school in year 6.
Either your dd isn’t that bothered about it or she can sense your reluctance to cancel the lessons so knows she doesn’t really need to practice.

Getting DS1 to practise was like pulling teeth so l stopped paying for the lessons. I think he only wanted to bunk off RE anyway
DS2 just pottered about with DP learning a few chords here and there and when he started formal lessons at 9 he didn't grade, just played what he wanted. He plays all the time and wants to study music at university. I think when they're young they need to enjoy it to want to do it and they won't enjoy it if they're pressured. If they are musical they will want to play and experiment with or without lessons - and if they have no urge to do it what's the point in paying for tuition?

10yr old DD rarely practises her violin. But she won't do homework either so it's no longer a battle worth having. She enjoys the lessons and is in the orchestra so I know she's getting something out of it.
I love listening to her on the odd occasion she plays. It just doesn't happen very often.

Don't stress about it. I hated music lessons as a kid. I rarely practiced and just did the minimum to pass exams.

I now play professionally, but in a completely different genre. Once I'd got the bug in my late teens, you couldn't stop me playing!

Can you let her see/hear other types of music on the violin/fiddle? Traditional, jazz, gypsy etc. One of those may spark her interest.

I took this approach with ds1 who never practiced from week to week and now he voluntarily goes to monthly camps where they practice all weekend and he loves it.

does she know how to practice effectively? I remember when I had music lessons as a child I thought practice just meant banging through the tunes we had done in class and I got bored pretty quick - I was a really good sight reader but had no technique.

I agree with trying other type/genre of music.
The only reason my ds started to learn instrument was to be able to play game music. He practice his favorite songs more than lesson pieces, but at least he is playing/practising everyday. And the teacher is quite flexible enough to help him with that too, which makes him more motivated.

Thanks everyone. Some different replies trickling in now. I suppose I'm inclined to view her lessons a bit like her gymnastics lessons- she doesn't practise gymnastics out of the class, and no one really expects her to. Sure the odd kid might take it to a high level amd be willing to put the hours in but that doesn't mean all the other kids who just turn up once a week not making massive amounts of progress are wasting their time if they're enjoying what they do get out of it. Is it different because the lessons are 1:1? I understand it is probably like banging your head on the wall and I empathise because that's what it was like teaching DD to read, but I stuck with it. If she doesn't want to teach her then fair enough I suppose, but my piano teacher seems happy enough to continue with me. We have a nice time.

10 mins a day of practice, at a set time (just before tea?) non negotiable every day except the day she has her lesson.

Parent up.

It like learning to read. You wouldn’t expect a child to make much progress if they tried to read once per week.

In your position, I’d suggest just 5 mins every day. That way, it’s a daily expectation rather than “is it violin practice today, ohbugger, lets have a tantrum” iyswim

My daughter plays the violin and clarinet and has done for a number of yrs! The violin can be difficult and often feel like no progress is being made which then hinders practice. My son has just started playing. In the early days we found little and often so if feels like part of every day. Having fun making up your own music. We supervised in the early years so it was an activity away from others. Local music groups for beginners. We are Hampshire and our music service is great and has training orchestras for beginners.

Our teacher also gives out stickers for 4+ practices per week and 5 stickers and you get a merit certificate. If you have a book with a CD use the CD as it's easier for them to hear how to play and where their part fits!

Above all don't make it a chore everyday if she doesn't want to practice I would stop the lessons not as a punishment but maybe leave it a term or two until she is more ready. Maybe consider a other instrument where progress is quicker?

Fuck off with the parent up. That's made me angry now. You have no idea what parenting my DD is like and what I'm prepared to make "non negotiable". I said I persevered with teaching her to read. I persevere with her homework and the battles to get dressed even though it nearly breaks me sometimes. I'm not prepared to have a similar battle over the violin. I just don't care that much, and it was supposed to be fun.

We are aiming to do 10 mins every day. This takes about 45 mins of procrastinating so we run out of time a lot of the time. I don't know how "non negotiable" looks like. You can't physically make them practice. So the threats come in. And then you feel like a tool because really what's the point?

I think as a parent, your motivation for your child to learn to read is on a different level than for playing an instrument. Plus , once your child ‘can read’ you can let them get on with it. They no longer need lessons in how to read. Mastering an instrument is a much longer process and requires extensive commitment.

Our music teachers made it clear to parents, in different ways, that learning an instrument is different from swimming etc, that you really have to be prepared to practice through the week.

It is hard to get it right with practice if your child has an oppositional tendency. Some kids prefer to be left to get on with it (although at the age/stage your dd is this is unlikely to be effective) some want company/ input.

I think if you and your dd are keen to continue, you both need to sit down with the teacher to discuss practice. The teacher needs to be prepared to accept your dd as potentially learning differently, if she is monitored for sen. If she can’t, you need to find a different teacher. Your dd needs to accept responsibility for practicing in some way, or perhaps postponing formal learning til she is older and can accept that responsibility.

Also the violin is a very technical instrument. Might it be worth unpicking exactly why the violin was the instrument of choice? Allow her to change. One of my dd’s changed instrument 3 times before finding what was right for her.
Good luck with it!

Maybe she is too young and isn't ready. My friend's dd was like that at that age, and her mum finally decided to cancel the lessons. She eventually started again a year later, and more motivated.

I think musical instruments are different from something like gymnastics. If you don't practise regularly, you won't progress, which turn into the vicious circle of not wanting to practise even more.

OP, no need to be rude to Sushi. IME, she's absolutely right. 10 minutes a day, every day - so it becomes like brushing your teeth.

The thing is, learning an instrument is hard work - there's no getting around it. Violin is especially difficult. And there's no fun to be had until she's good at a few things - simple tune, a decent bow hold etc. So there's a kind of "pain barrier" to get through, to develop muscle memory, where most children need support (bribes or threats) in order to progress. I think it's very different from gymnastics.

Good luck.

And sorry bastardkitty, but once a week is not helpful!! Regular practice is key.