to be unhappy about DH taking our baby abroad?

[SummerForever]

Have name changed here.

AIBU to be unhappy & uncertain about allowing DH to take our 3 month old baby abroad without me?

He’s a fantastic father and there is no issue there.

Trip would be to see his family/my PILs. Short haul flight of 2hrs.

Also his grandmother is going to have her 90th birthday, she has been in poor health for a number of years now so he is concerned that it will be the last time he will get to see her and spend time with her etc.

Also he would like to introduce DS2 to her as it might be last chance. Lots of extended family would like to meet the baby, DH is one of 3 brothers and he has many aunties & uncles.

PILs obviously very keen to see baby again (they came to stay for 1 month when DS2 was a week old).

DH has some leave left and so would like to use it, I’m still on maternity leave so I could technically go as well.

The issue is that the trip would be later this month and so DS1 (aged 6) is in school and would need to be taken out for this.

We have already booked a holiday for next Easter and he will miss 10 days of the school year (long haul trip to USA).

My parents live 4 hours drive away and they both still work so would not be able to come down to look after DS1. More importantly, I would not feel comfortable leaving him here while the 3 of us go off abroad.

AIBU to be telling DH that I just don’t feel comfortable or happy with him taking DS2?

DH is quite upset that I feel this way- I am shocked that he has reacted like this and he is disappointed with my decision etc.

But for me, I think it’s just too soon for the baby to go away without me.

Am I being too clingy? or should I just let him go with DS2?
My gut tells me no but his reaction is making me question my judgement.
DS2 was an IVF baby after a number of years of TTC & miscarriages- I think I might be more over protective of him as a consequence.

What do others think, especially those with a similar aged baby?
I can’t see the wood for the trees!

It’s not a moral panic. Newborn babies have a primary attachment figure and multiple secondary attachments. Usually the primary attachment figure is the mother. It’s not sexist, we are mammals and nature/evolution has designed it that way.

Separation from the primary care giver is traumatic for the infant.

These points are widely supported by a range of different types of scientific evidence and real world examples.

The OPs DH states himself that he hasn’t been around enough to bond with the baby. The OP is the primary attachment figure. Therefore we can safely assume that the infant would find this entirely unnecessary separation traumatic.

From the OP

all I know is that I've cared for my DS2 constantly since he was born

He feels like he's missed out on the early months as he's been so busy with work and says he'd like some time to bond as well.

The foot stamping over sexism is ridiculous here - one of the few times sex roles are utterly important is in the gestating of babies and first few months of their lives!

Maybe its "utterly sexist" that if a hetrosexual couple want to be parents its always the woman who has to take the risks snd hit to her health that pregnancy and childbirth often bring, that it's the woman who might be left incontinent, will inevitably suffer significant physical pain, will be left with weight to lose and post partem heavy bleeding and sore, leaking breasts. That it's her who sex may be painful for. Maybe its it's the mother who carries the unborn child and suffers nausia or full blown sickness for anything between a few weeks and the full pregnancy, who suffers pregnancy insomnia and restless legs, but who also gets to feel the baby mive and kick inside her and whose heartbeat the baby hears and whose voice and smell it bonds to in the 12 weeks before full term birth. It's horribly sexist that breastfeeding is optimal and that only the female parent can usefully breast feed, and that this strengths the bond between female, breastfeeding parent and child further.

Biology is horribly sexist, but just pretending all the above aren't true for the first 5 or 6 months of a babys life because it isn't fair on men, doesn't help women or babies, and doesn't fight the patriarchy, it just panders to the few unpleasant, toddler tantruming men who think not putting their wants before the best interests of their newborn baby and its mother is sexist.

Oh ffs 90 might be old but nobody has said she's dying.
If it was that important to the father he'd have thought about it, rated a Italy trip over the weddings and US. The 90th birthday and new baby hardly came out the blue. I'd also think if it was so important he'd want to take the 6yo who might actually get something out of seeing the great granny.

I get the feeling its actually MIL who wants to get her hands on the baby without mum in the way. Hence his 'I'm telling on you attitude' behaving like a small child.

Baby will not have a clue whats going on and will miss mum, regardless of damage, it will miss and cry for the comfort of mum. So in your mind its ok for baby to cry for a week for the benefit of other people. Thats mean.

Well bloody said blueskies. Your whole post and particularly this:

"Biology is horribly sexist, but just pretending all the above aren't true for the first 5 or 6 months of a babys life because it isn't fair on men, doesn't help women or babies, and doesn't fight the patriarchy, it just panders to the few unpleasant, toddler tantruming men who think not putting their wants before the best interests of their newborn baby and its mother is sexist."

Well said blue skies.

I have never understood this attitude on MN... in the rush towards “equality” I think western society has lost sight of the fact that equal doesn’t necessarily mean the same.

There seems to be this creeping and pervasive ideology that mothers are entirely replaceable. That the physical act of caring for babies and small children can be done by just anyone, not just fathers or extended family, literally anyone as long as they are competent.... I feel it reflects societies/governments drives to have women back into work and paying taxes ASAP... let’s not forget that the extremely young school starting age in the uk (4 years old) was never set based on child development research, but on a government drive to get women back into work sooner.

I think we all loose something from this approach. Mothers are not replaceable and we loose something unique from the special bond between mother and baby when we pretend that it doesn’t exist or downplay/deny it

Absofrigginlootly
There seems to be this creeping and pervasive ideology that mothers are entirely replaceable.

Yes, this is the part that really is upsetting. Thinking about stopping breastfeeding = entirely replaceable. Never mind that you spent 9 months growing that baby, that just 90 days ago he was still inside your body, no matter that you risked life and injury to birth him, just ignore that you are still recovering & bonding. A week with mostly strangers and a plastic bottle is not good enough

You're not a friggin incubator, done your job and now he can take his trophy to show off.
Fuck. That.

He knew grandma was going to turn 90. Did he just learn when her bday is?! To make this into some emergency is manipulative.

Yes, try to make it work, compromise. Don't compromise on taking away your baby.

12 week old for a week away from mum. Shocking.

Well done OP for standing your ground in the face of what sounds like quite a lot of pressure from your DH.
I'm totally with you, I think there's more to this than he wants his family to meet DS2 or wants some bonding time. I'd bet a lot of money that his reaction isn't just about taking the baby on holiday per se but represents something deeper for him around how he sees himself/your relationship or thinks family sees him. The need to blame you to the family suggests he thinks they'd be okay with his plan (or he thinks they would...or maybe they even encouraged it!) and he's feeling embarrassed...he's back tracking And feeling not in control so needs to finger point. Do you think he's feeling guilt or something that he's had to work away so much and hasn't had as much opportunity to bond with DS2? Did he work away when DS1 was little? Does he get like this about other situations in life (especially in relarion to his family or sharing of household responsibility) and is there a common theme?

Also FWIW in an ideal world babies shouldn't be separated from their primary caregiver at all. it does have long term psychological effects (subtle or otherwise) to be separated. And I'm not talking about going for a shower! Your situation isn't an emergency, it's a choice. Your DH isn't the primary caregiver in this circumstance, in fact he's often working away (no judgement on him for that, it's just how it is). His family are the baby's family but they might as well be total randoms from DS2s pov because he doesn't know them from Adam. Likewise, the place would be totally unfamiliar. This isn't about feminism, equality etc, it's about what is best for this tiny baby in this situation being taken from his normal environment without his primary caregiver. I think OP soubds more motivated by thinking what is best for the baby and DH is thinking about what's best for him.

Another vote for Blue skies post.

She has been in poor health for a number of years now so he is concerned that it will be the last time he will get to see her and spend time with her etc.

AvoidingDM—this is from the OP not an inference I made.

with people they have never met OP also states that in-laws were around for one month, presumably they were with Baby and not seeing the sights of England or wherever.

You're not a friggin incubator, done your job and now he can take his trophy to show off Where have I said anything remotely close to this? I’m just pointing out that a week is not long and Baby will be with the father and in-laws. Other posters are being VVU going on about shrunken prefrontals and whatnot, ffs. It’s not a Romanian orphanage

Look, at the end of the day, it’s a decision between the parents. But the DH is not BU.

In fact you were the only poster who mentioned “shrunken prefrontal cortex”

Developmental neuroscience shows how important those early maternal bonds are for frontal lobe development (empathy, love, reciprocity, morality etc).... maybe those lacking in empathy on this thread had attachment problems

My mistake. Frontal lobes.

Yes but show me where I said that a week apart would cause a shrunken prefrontal cortex/lobe- which is what you said posters were being “VVU going on about”.

What posters including myself have said is that a baby would find a week apart from his primary attachment figure traumatic and distressing and it could cause attachment issues or have psychological effects. No one was saying it was equal to the level of neglect needed to cause actual brain damage

@blueskiesandforests

This. With bells on.

You've really very eloquently put into words all my feelings & emotions about this whole thing.

Very very well said Blueskies!!!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻