To think daughter is ungrateful/expects too much

[Pompom42]

Have a teenage daughter she's 13.
She currently shares a bedroom with her younger sister. The younger sister is 3 but isn't really sleeping in there atm she still sleeps in my room with me.
We have a 2 bed bungalow which is not tiny but not large either. But we are all on the one floor so I appreciate we do get in each other's way at times.
Just recently she keeps saying to me "wish I didn't have to share a room with my sister".
Whilst it isn't ideal as I said youngest isn't sleeping in there. It's a nice room and was all decorated and new beds etc 2 years ago.
Now she's started saying "this house is tiny, when can we move?"
"All my friends houses are bigger, this house is really really tiny compared to theres"
I've said to her tonight I can't afford anything else. We live in a naice area and at the time it was this house or nothing. We have a drive and a garden and it's in a pretty village.
For some reason it's made me feel really upset. AIBU in thinking she's spoilt? Or is this normal teenage behaviour?
What about years ago when you had families of 6 children all living in a 3 bed house.
What can I say to her?

The sofa bed in the living room is how a couple of families I know operate.

One has 2 children in a 2 bed flat and the other has 1 dc in a 1 bed flat.

They have privacy because the living room door is closed and the children have their own bedroom.

I think swapping rooms with dd and you and younger dd sharing the bigger bedroom could work.

I don’t think it is worth looking at what happened in the past with 15 children sharing 2 bedrooms till they were 27. I don’t think it is relevant. Now children get homework and need their own space.
In the past there wasn’t the amount of homework given every night. She might not get everything done by 7pm each night so what happens then if both her and her dsis were sharing

Would it be better to move a bit further out in order to get the 3rd bedroom. Sometimes you have to be practical and admit lovely as it is you cannot afford what you need in the area you are in.

It must be hard on your dd not being able to keep up with others in the neighbourhood.

My dm would move us into different houses in very expensive areas and say I should look around and be grateful because I was now living in a much nicer area than where I grew up.

Issue being we didn’t have any money to do anything or go anywhere and I didn’t fit in.

Personally I wanted to go back to the rough area where I grew up as that was where my friends were.

I certainly wasn’t bothered about property prices

I shared until I was 17 and even with a very small age gap and a sister I got on well with, I hated it as a teen.

No privacy (even if your little is asleep well before your teen goes to bed when she is sleeping in the shared room, your teen can't then listen to music or watch TV in bed, or use the room as a normal room basically) - I remember being hugely secretive about getting changed in front of my sister, and the fact that she's 3 might feel irrelevant. Plus the embarrassment around periods and body hair and - TMI - she's old enough to be starting to 'discover her body' (as delicately put as I can!). Then there's feeling like you're getting older and want to individualise your space and feel like you're coming into who you are as a person and sharing that space with a toddler is going to feel like she's being held back from that. I don't say this to make you feel bad - like you, my mum explained there simply wasn't the option to move and for the most part I accepted it, but I don't think your daughter is being ungrateful per se. We mostly couldn't afford holidays etc but I would hazard that in a 13 year old's mind she may simplify it as "I would rather my own space 50 weeks of a year over the 2 weeks of holiday" - obviously that isn't how it works and a cheap weekend at Butlins isn't the same as upheaving your life, changing commutes, moving area, saving for rental deposit/mortgage arranging, moving costs etc etc... But I could imagine that being a thought process!

My mum did what PPs are suggesting for my final year of sixth form and put all her clothes etc in the big built-in wardrobe in 'our' bedroom and slept on a pull out bed in the living room for a year so that I could have my own space during A Levels/first boyfriend/starting to go out in town for the first time and I was absurdly grateful. I agree with other posters that a parent shouldn't feel obliged to (I felt so guilty about it at times and definitely felt bad for the fact my mum kept the roof over our heads and I was in her bedroom!) but I really really valued the space at the time. Bless my mum

Jesus fucking wept. Share with your toddler. Sell the fucking bunk beds if necessary (ie because of your sciatica). But share with your toddler and don't be so fucking selfish. It's a place to sleep for YOU but not for a 13 year old.

Unless we have unlimited funds, we ALL need to compromise. Sooner she learns that, the better.

She’s allowed to voice her frustration, although I’m sure it must be upsetting to hear when you think of all the good things she does have. It won’t hurt to discuss with her what she actually thinks you could do to solve the issue.

Not much pushes my buttons more than kids who have no idea how lucky they are. I feel like dropping them off in a slum somewhere for an attitude readjustment.

She’ll get it, eventually. Maybe when she has her own teenager/s...

It isn't usual for a teenager to share with a three year old - at least when I was growing up (90s-00s). Kids closer in age, yes, but I can see why the teen is feeling hard done by. Unreasonable as it may feel to an adult, teens really value having their own room - it's part of that push-pull 'I'm so independent but actually I'm still a kid' thing they're going through - so personally, though I'd come down hard on the rudeness and entitlement, I'd make it happen for her.

Harping on about having spent £1000 on bunk beds 'which you all agreed on' is not helpful - the kid is only 13, she's not going to be able to foresee that actually, bunk beds with a 3 year old is going to be shit as she gets older until it happens and she realises.

It does sound a much better idea for you to sell the bunk beds and reconfigure the big double room so you can share with the 3 year old, and your 13 year old can have the single. By the time your teen is moving out your little one can then move into the single room and you can have the double to yourself again.

Not much pushes my buttons more than kids who have no idea how lucky they are. I feel like dropping them off in a slum somewhere for an attitude readjustment

If the slum offered a private bedroom I think the dd might not have an issue.

I personally preferred the slum area I came from than the posh area we moved to.

Dm didn’t have any money to spend in the slum area (too busy saving to get us out of there) but it didn’t matter neither did anyone else.

I'm a bit torn OP, on one hand I shared with a much younger sibling using a bunk bed. But it was through choice and I was happy with it. I get the sense from your posts that you don't want alternative solutions so much as hear it is fine. It is okay but to really work your dc need to be on board with it. Try and listen to your dd, see what solutions she has if any and sympathize because sometimes life can be a bit rubbish.

What's @Oliversmumsarmy said

If I was you, I would be moving into the double to share with the youngest, and move the teenager to the single. I don't see it as getting her way, if the 3yr old is sleeping with you in your room anyway, then I can't see why there would be an issue?!

If the slum offered a private bedroom I think the dd might not have an issue.

I think we may have different definitions of ‘slum’.

If I was you, I would be moving into the double to share with the youngest, and move the teenager to the single

That would be the sensible solution given that the 3 YO shares with the OP and the teen effectively has the large room to herself at the moment, but I can't see the teen liking that as she would be getting an even worse deal in her eyes. Have people missed that the teen does effectively have her own room as the 3 YO sleeps in the OPs room and almost never goes into the teen's room?

The responses on this thread indicate how skewed a lot of Mumsnetters idea of 'normal' minimum basic expectation is to expect all DCs to have their own room with no compromises to budget etc. She already has a nice house in an expensive area, which is unaffordable to the majority of the population, and yet it's still not enough.

The OP hasn't said whether she owns or rents the house or if she has enough spare money, or the energy to deal with extending the property, converting the loft or moving, so all the 'just move', 'just extend' comments are just ridiculous.

It sounds like the teen won't be happy whatever the OP does, as there will always be friends with bigger houses and nicer lifestyles, etc.

Maybe the solution is to sit down with the teen and say 'this is how much money we have and this is what mortgage/bills, food, travel, holidays, days out etc costs so if we did move to a bigger house, we couldn't have the holidays, or day to day treats, or we can't move at all because that costs £xK that we just don't have'?

Or you could get a sign like this to display?

Apologies OP for assuming/possibly spelling it out insensitively, but people should consider that what if the OP is on her own because she is a widow and is just doing her best in difficult circumstances before wading in with the 'teens must have their own room for privacy' comments, so the OP should sleep in the lounge/move/extend etc.

Op, taking away from maybe the last coat being purchased 3 years ago - 120 pounds is a lot of money to spend on a coat for a 13 year old. In Australian money that works out for me around about $300 plus dollars. There is no way I'd spend that money on a child who is growing.
My suggestion is between outlays like that, multiple holidays including ones overseas and bespoke bunks you are giving her a skewed perspective on money ( and the money available in your household. This perhaps, is why she cannot understand why you can't stump up for a larger home and seems ungrateful.

Otherwise I am supporting you against those who think sacrificing all comfort for their children , and dossing down in the lounge , are acceptable options.

You are very aggressive in your responses OP. You also refer to your daughter in not very pleasant terms because she is unhappy and you prefer to fritter your money on expensive coats, holidays and bunk beds rather than sort out the basics.

The age gap is too big to share a room and the little one can’t carry on sharing with you for very much longer either. Wake up and work towards sorting it.

All those people who hated sharing with their siblings - what did you do when you left home? Did you get a room of your own? How lovely - and lucky - for you.

Obviously there is a real feeling on MN that parents are failing children by making them share - this thread has been an eye-opener for that - but what happens all these kids with their own rooms when they get out into the big world. If they live in the US and are lucky enough to go to university, they will be sharing a tiny dorm room with 1, 2 or possible 3 other people. And those are the lucky ones. The unlucky ones are sharing a bedroom with a few strangers.

Is this the new norm? Don't have children if you can't afford to give them their own room? Despite the fact that generations of people did fine sharing bedrooms as kids?

The children will have to share a room, it’s quite normal in many families

Spot on. My father was one of 7 children living in a 3 bedroom house. My mother was one of 4 also in a 3 bedroom house.

Would not be surprised if the 13 year old wants to text all night and does not want the younger sister to tell her mother?

YABU

Your daughter is not being unreasonable or acting spoilt.

I think you should sit down and write up what you’ve spent in the last 2 years on:

• more expensive than necessary clothes such as £120 for a coat
• shoes/boots
• bespoke beds
• holidays

You have definitely spent enough to divide the living room.

Then work out what you would need to do to make your lives easier. What would you need to sacrifice for example build a small conservatory? Convert the loft? Maybe, maybe not achievable. Idk.

I also think you should get your older dd involved in money saving measures and have end goals.

What I’m reading right now is due to your experiences you’ve decided to live life for now. It sounds as if dd also picked up on this. And teens are renowned for wanting it “now” so you’ve got a double whammy there.

It sounds like you have a good income and love giving to your children. Which is great and sound like an engaged mum, who is listening to your dds.

The caveat is one day soon your eldest will be on her own and it’s going to be very tough for her if she thinks she can get everything she wants now. Children need to learn about anticipation and delayed gratification so they don’t come unstuck once they’re on their own.

Is there any kind of pitch on your bungalow? Small loft conversion.

Our neighbour has got a small dormer in theirs and had it plastered and lights installed, it didn’t cost the earth but you might have to forgo a holiday.

I don’t think it’s ridiculous to want your own space, but equally I shared for a while with my 8year younger sibling and enjoyed it.

Yes Op, you should move onto a sofa bed, or floor, in the lounge to satisfy your teen. NOT.
YANBU, but she’s at that stroppy age and is probably dreading her older toddler sister having to move in with her, that’s pretty normal for her to think that.

pallisers most MN ers don't live in the US. In most of the western world the one time you can expect a room of your own is as a single adult. Most adults would not expect to share with anyone they are not in a relationship with, until they have a baby of their own, if they ever do.

Really gets me that some people talk about how ten children lived in a tiny house. My grandmother had ten kids with no bathroom! So what? We don't live like that nowadays, most of us want our children to have their own rooms once they get past a certain age. It's OK sharing when they are small but when puberty is on the horizon they only share on holiday.

The op's daughter is not being unreasonable nor selfish. However if there is no way out of it, that's how it goes. The next few years will fly past and eldest daughter can leave home.

I know I couldn't wait to leave home! I was an only child too so had my own room but still couldn't wait to have a room where no-one could enter without my permission, do my own laundry and just be myself.

I imagine some of that is what the op's eldest wants.

Pallisers - the US college system of having roommates is not usual in the UK, in a British Halls of Residence most students can opt for a single room. After graduating in the UK I went to law school in the USA and was amazed to be "offered" the chance to share a bedroom with another student in dorms. I declined and rented an apartment all for myself!

I don't think sharing rooms is something children shouldn't have to do. I know this view does prevail on MN, but I don't share (ha) it. I don't think sharing is the best solution when the sharing scenario is patently unsuitable or causing difficulties - and this appears to me to be one of those cases.

My personal view is also that an adult bedroom is not a hugely efficient use of space when space is at a premium. A child or teen has only their room to withdraw to and keep their stuff in. The rest of the home is 'adult' territory. Dh and I have recently moved out of our bedroom in order to give our older two a room each (after sharing all their lives - they're now 13 and 11). Their sister is much younger and as such can't share - she has her own room. Having got on well all their lives, the older two were starting to struggle to get on and we felt it was important to give them their own spaces. We're lucky to have enough space to be able to organise our clothes etc elsewhere, and we get privacy when everyone else is in their rooms/in bed. It's fine. I don't subscribe to this MN view (which sometimes slides a little into the vindictive) that being An Adult has to carry certain unassailable privileges.

I also don't think it's on to sanctimoniously dissect OP's financial choices to date, however sensible or not anyone thinks they are, with the undertone that her situation is her own fault. Smacks a bit of the 'millennials could all own property if they didn't buy takeaway coffee' mindset.

@Pompom42 I said splashing money around unnecessarily because of the statements you've made.

You have Sky and Netflix which is possibly £50 a month. Freeview is just that, free. Surely no TV programme is that important to cost £50.

Yes, last time when money was tight we did go on holiday. Camping in the UK. Not everyone's cup of tea but once a year otherwise. Five trips seems excessive.

We live in one of the most expensive parts of Manchester and DD's friends live in million pound plus homes. But their clothes are Hollister etc. DD wears the same clothes as her friends and her coat cost under £50 a couple of years ago. She has one pair of boots from last year and now her feet have stopped growing her next pair will be a Christmas present.

DD's bed now is a good one and was a gift from my mum. The rest of her furniture is from Ikea. There are plenty of bunk beds on the market for way less than £1000. Bespoke seems way OTT unless every other option was explored.

But as I said, those are your priorities. Maybe the issue isn't money at all if you have that much spare on these things.

AnElderlyLady
If that was addressed to me amongst other posters that is not what I was saying at all. Rather for op to think if she is satisfied with the way she is running her life. It is easier to make changes if you appraise what you’ve done so far. There are a few tv programmes based on just such a premise.

Her dd is unhappy with the status quo. Not unusual for 13 yos. Maybe op didn’t come with this question. But if she wants a solution I would have thought this was one possibility.