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MNHQ- please address the anti Irish sentiment present on Mumsnet and in your talk guidelines

573 replies

IStandWithPosie · 03/11/2018 11:03

It has become glaringly apparent there is a persistent and growing anti Irish sentiment present on Mumsnet in recent years. Not only that but the stance Mumsnet HQ have taken when made aware of the racially offensive posts has been totally inadequate. Repeated calls by Irish Mumsnet users to remove such posts and to take a stand against them have been ignored by Mumsnet HQ. This is in direct contrast to the way those with other protected characteristics have been listened to and had their reports acted upon in such a way as to leave many Mumsnet users afraid to post for fear of deletion or permanent banning. Which has happened. In light of this we are asking that all staff at Mumsnet HQ take meaningful steps to improve awareness of what anti-Irish sentiments are and the types of unacceptable posts we’re complaining about. A review of the posts that have been reported as racist would be a good starting point, and a measure of what mumsnet members collectively consider to be offensive. We also ask that talk guidelines are applied consistently across the forum for all protected characteristics and that racist posts towards or about Irish people are removed immediately.

Furthermore, Mumsnet HQ have asserted their their intention to knowingly continue to use racially offensive language in their talk guidelines The phrase “beyond the pale” dates back to the 14th century, when the part of Ireland that was under English rule was delineated by a boundary made of such stakes or fences, and known as the English Pale. To travel outside of that boundary, beyond the pale, was to leave behind all the rules and institutions of English society, which the English modestly considered synonymous with civilization itself. The phrase is rooted in the oppression of the Irish people by the English ruling classes and is offensive to Irish people. Mumsnet HQ have been asked by Irish Mumsnet users to remove this phrase from their talk guidelines. Mumsnet HQ have refused stating “there seems to be a general consensus among etymology types that it’s an idiom which has long evolved from its offensive historical context.” This completely disregards the information Mumsnet HQ have that confirm that Irish people themselves find it offensive.
We are asking Mumsnet HQ to apologise for the offense caused by their use of this inappropriate phrase and to remove it from their talk guidelines.

OP posts:
Thymeout · 05/11/2018 13:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Thymeout · 05/11/2018 13:12

'never made the Irish connection with Paddy'.

JaneJeffer · 05/11/2018 13:25

You will make yourselves ridiculous.
You'll look as if you've got a chip on your shoulder.

To you?

Telling people to eye-roll at these type of comments. How will that change anything?

I've just seen someone referring to "the Irish contingent " on another thread because one Irish poster said something they didn't agree with as if we don't have minds of our own.

SisterOfDonFrancisco · 05/11/2018 13:53

Another one here who didn't know 'beyond the pale' was offensive. I've also learned that 'hop along' 'pissed off' and 'for gods sake' are offensive. I hate to think how many people I've insulted by accident.

Noviceoftheweek · 05/11/2018 13:53

I am staggered that I am being asked to explain myself. All I will say is that what has been described here is nothing compared to what I, and other black women, experience, often on a daily basis. And it goes without saying that I abhor all prejudice and eacism.

JaneJeffer · 05/11/2018 14:01

Nobody asked you to explain yourself Novice. It was pointed out to you that all types of racism are intolerable. Nobody tried to trivialise what you go through. Also there are black people who are also Irish. If someone insults them on being Irish is that OK because they didn't bring their colour into it?

Giantbanger · 05/11/2018 14:03

@michaelmumsnet has posted on another thread that the guidelines have been reworded and I would like to say, on this thread, as I did on that other thread, that I appreciate the gesture.

JaneJeffer · 05/11/2018 14:05

Mise freisin Grin

IStandWithPosie · 05/11/2018 14:16

Brilliant news, very glad to hear this. I do hope we will have engagement from MNHQ on this thread on the overall issue. It was never just about that phrase.

OP posts:
Giantbanger · 05/11/2018 14:33

I agree IStandWithPosie but I am much more hopeful that we will get meaningful engagement now than I was

Thymeout · 05/11/2018 14:41

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Noviceoftheweek · 05/11/2018 14:43

Thank you Thymeout - at last a voice of reason. I am beyond infuriated by this sorry saga.

Giantbanger · 05/11/2018 14:44

I live in one of those regions where sectarianism exists. I challenge it there, and I will challenge it on mumsnet as well.

And if you don't think that Northern Ireland has a history of fatal assaults, perhaps go and google. Almost 4,000 people fatal assaults.

RhiWrites · 05/11/2018 14:45

I’m signing this thread.

MumsnetHQ should address this. Perhaps they need a workshop in confronting their own unconscious bias. There are a lot of people who think they’re intentionally anti Irish now.

VerbeenaBeeks · 05/11/2018 14:49

Thank you Thymeout - at last a voice of reason. I am beyond infuriated by this sorry saga.

I agree with you as in it's ridiculous - it clearly has several meanings as shown on this thread.

Giantbanger · 05/11/2018 14:51

if you scale it up to the uk it's 130,000 people of fatal assaults if my maths is right (I have no maths brain so if someone could check that I would be grateful!)

JeanPagett · 05/11/2018 15:09

I agree with Thymeout.

IStandWithPosie · 05/11/2018 15:21

There’s an incredibly unpleasant undertone to some of these posts.

OP posts:
JaneJeffer · 05/11/2018 15:26

Yes IStand I think a lot of people are pissed off that MN listened to "the Irish Contingent" and changed the wording.

Giantbanger · 05/11/2018 15:40

I can't imagine being pissed off that mumsnet decided to remove a piece of wording off their site that some posters felt was racist.

Thymeout · 05/11/2018 15:44

Giantbanger I'm well aware of the fatal assaults. I live on the UK mainland and I and my children were caught up in the Harrod's bombing, fortunately only to our inconvenience. Even before that, in the early 60's, I knew about the discrimination and political chicanery in Northern Ireland, because I had friends from Belfast.

But this is historic. (Hope I'm not tempting fate here.) Catholics are not being run down on streets for attending their place of worship or having to employ security guards for their nurseries. Irish people do not face the same discrimination in job applications as black or Asian minorities. They are not abused on public transport or told to go home when they speak their own language. They don't run after you shouting Paddy on the street. (Tho' my daughter once got chased in Glasgow for inadvertently wearing a green t-shirt.)

The bias you see on Mumsnet is in your own head. Analyse that and ask yourselves why you're so anxious to take offence when none is intended.

  • [Post edited by MNHQ to correct username]
IStandWithPosie · 05/11/2018 15:48

The bias you see on Mumsnet is in your own head.

It really, honestly isn’t thyme. I don’t know why it angers you so much for people to ask for it to be addresses. What do you lose by MNHQ dealing with nasty posts?

OP posts:
Thymeout · 05/11/2018 15:48

Apologies Giantbanger. I misread your username.

It takes me a long time to type and it's a mistake to read anything into my posts relating to Mumsnet's decision.

Shriek · 05/11/2018 15:49

I don't see how it's any different to mysogynism, where certain words and phrases are used against a whole group of society. Stereotyping is prejudice.

The pp who talked about flat caps and whippets, for example, how offensive to laugh in a derisory way about that, when the majority are far from.

Giantbanger · 05/11/2018 15:50

Thyme you're wrong. It hasn't gone away in Northern Ireland. I'm not even going to say any more other than you're wrong. It is beyond ignorant to claim it hasn't and shows just how little you are aware of.

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