To think I didn't make her homeless?

[Wheyv]

DD's college seem to be quite concerned here and I'm actually really worried now. DD's behaviour was absolutely horrendous, words such as "I wish you were dead" and "you're a cunt" were thrown around and I just couldn't bare to have her here. She refused to stay out of my sight and so I told her to get out, she then said well where am I supposed to go? And I said I didn't care and for her to just get out, she left. It hit around 9pm and it was getting dark, I told elder sister to suggest she could go stay in her flat... eldest sister texted her and said she could go stay there (eldest is visiting) so DD did. DD didn't know it was my suggestion, but I knew she was safe and told the college this. But apparently they're still concerned and were blabbering in about how I have parental responsibility... she is 17 for gods sake! AIBu?

There are a lot of non legally qualified people discussing homelessness. The OP’s daughter made an allegation and the college phoned to investigate. I am sure that when they heard what actually happened they added a note to the DD’s file and forgot about it.

I mean with yoU OP!

I can’t veliebe she’s being dismissed as being “just a child” - or that she’s a “teenager”.

A 17 year old is not a child and when I think of surly teenagers who aren’t emotionally mature (as has been suggested on here) of 12-15 year old, not 17,

A 17 year old is fully aware that being nasty to their mother, making fun of them, demanding of them, following them around the house shouting at them and calling them a cunt is absolutely wrong!! I can’t believe her behaviour is being excused, it’s disgusting.

I can’t even imagine what my mum would have done to me if i had treated her and spoken to her like that at 17 years old - I think being chucked out would be the least of my problems.

You did nothing wrong OP - you reacted when you were pushed, as everyone does (even the perfect parents on here) and you are only human.

You shouldn’t have to tolerate such disgusting behaviour towards you from a 17 year old who knows exactly how unacceptable her behaviour is.

Actually the legal position is that teenagers can move out at 16, but the parents have to give financial assistance.
You have my sympathy op. I have had 3 years of this, there is a limit on how many times you can be told to fuck off.

I'm really failing to see why people think the OP is so awful here.

Okay so maybe things could have been handled better but I imagine having someone follow you around your house (child or not) verbally abusing you to the absolute end of your tether would cause you to lose rational thinking for a while and want them out. And yes I'd think the same if it were my husband (we'd all be telling her to get him to leave if it were him).

I read it that when OP said she 'didn't care' where she went it was in the heat of the moment and once she'd calmed down not long after she arranged for her daughter to stay somewhere safe or would have brought her home if not.

It's hardly the worst thing a parent has done is it. I'm sure my parents would have done something similar if I'd told my mother she was a cunt who I wished would die following her around the house getting in her face.

She's nearly 18 for Christ's sake. It's not okay for her to be verbally abusive to anyone, not even her mother. It's a disgusting way to speak to your parents and I'm not surprised op lost her rag.

All of this 'its just what teenagers do' stuff is nonsense. I would never have spoken to either of my parents this way because my behavior wouldn't have been excused and there would have been consequences as there should be.

She was told to leave her house for one night after being utterly vile towards her mother. OP has said she arranged for somewhere for her daughter to stay or would have let her home if not. I really don't think this counts for 'piss poor parenting'.

OP now things have calmed down I'd try and take this opportunity to sit down with your DD2 and get to the bottom of this behavior, try not to let it escalate into an argument again. If this is a regular occurrence would you be able to look at some form of anger management perhaps for your DD?

Of course college had to be told! She's a minor and, like it or not, this is a safeguarding issue. Risk of emotional and physical harm.

Absolutely this.

The college may also have a duty to report this to Children's Services. Where I work, we do, but I'm not sure if this is an internal thing or national safeguarding guidance.

Student Support in a college here. We absolutely have a duty of care to contact parents/carer's in the first instance when a young person under 18 tells us they have been kicked out. We are aware that we are only getting the YP's version but contacting parents generally gives us a more accurate understanding of what has happened.

In the OP's situation we would likely tell the YP to modify her behaviour if she wants a roof over head and to go home. Recording our actions.

Further or previous incidents may indicate a more serious situation and then we would involve Early Help/Childrens Social Care.

There comes a point when you respect your children as grown up.

But legally they are children until they are 18, and up until that day you have a parental responsibility to keep them safe.

up until that day you have a parental responsibility to keep them safe

Which surely OP did by arranging with her eldest for her DD to stay at her flat?

Parental responsibility doesn't mean excusing awful behavior and wrapping in cotton wool.

OP made sure her daughter was safe for the night and then took her home the next day. At practically 18 years old that is enough.

I'd say the parental responsibility now she's home is to try and find out if there's any underlying cause for her anger.

Hepzibar,

Thank you for explaining exactly what I understand would happen.

Child protection officers are there to record and build up patterns of behaviour. If the pattern surpassses a threshold (which is actually pretty high), they report on to social services.

Even then social services try to support and intermediate before taking more serious action.

You didn’t make her homeless. You had enough of one venting of having her screaming in your face, even in your own room. She didn’t have to say that to college, she just had to come home and say sorry. You don’t call your mum a cunt at 17 and expect her to laugh it off - it’s very abusive. She’s not a child, she’s a young adult. And she has no right to expect her phone to be paid at 18.

I'm with you op.

Why is it acceptable to put up with teenagers treating parents like this. I never would have dreamed to speak to my mum like that.

Yes, your daughter is still considered a child at 17 but she is 18 beginning of December, and classed as an adult.

If young adults want to play the big I am, then they can act as a proper grown up and get a job, pay their own way and take on all responsibilities that come with being an adult.

They will soon realise how easier life would have been if they had just been more respectful whilst living at home

I am just completely stunned that so many middle class people are entirely ignorant of how many many people live.

The idea that throwing out a teenager (nearly an adult) for a couple of hours and then offering her a bed at her sister’s house will even cause social services to raise an eyebrow is risible.

Of course, the DD made an allegation (a false one) and the college had to follow up with a phone call. I suspect when they found out the truth they gave the DD a sharp telling off for lying and wasting their time.

Those who think the DD was made ‘homeless’ are merely displaying their complete ignorance.

The college may also have a duty to report this to Children's Services. Where I work, we do, but I'm not sure if this is an internal thing or national safeguarding guidance

No, they wouldn't, because this child wasn't made homeless: OP arranged somewhere safe for her to stay.

I don't think the OP was unreasonable in asking her abusive daughter to step away from the row and give them both some space, but I am wondering how the row escalated in the first place, given the combative answers she's given on here. Did you explain to your daughter why she needs to fund the phone contract herself when she turns 18 and discuss how she could do that by getting a PT job etc, or did you just lob a grenade by announcing she was being cut off and that's that? I'm not justifying the appalling names she called you, OP, but I'm wondering if the way you both communicate might be a problem.

*No they wouldn't because this child wasn't made homeless: OP arranges somewhere safe for her to stay
*
That maybe, but from the child's perspective she was homeless. She didn't know the OP had made arrangements.

@Wheyv

I seem to be one of the very few that actually sympathises with you. I don't think it will do her any harm to give her a shock to her system, to speak to you like that is appalling. It won't do her any harm to feel that maybe you have enough of her. She is nearly an adult and whilst teenagers have it tough, so do us, parents. You shouldn't have to put up with that crap in your own home. I feel like sometimes we are just too accepting of teenagers behaving like this. Go back a couple of generations and a 17-year-old wouldn't have dared speak to their parents like that. The sympathies would have been 100% with the parent, not the child.

Social Services wont give a shit past the age of 15.

Sending her to her older sister, to allow breathing space, is not "throwing her out". I never quite get how utterly literal some readers are. It must be a ridiculously black and white world they live in.

TBH OP - I've had this too, with a 6 foot 4 angry teenage boy. And it isn't pleasant. My total sympathies are with you. If it's any consolation, the day they hit 18 and realise they aren't covered by child protection laws, will be dealt with in the courts as and adult, they tend to radically moderate their behaviour and stop behaving like {insert your adjective of choice}

It's really hard at times, I could have done the same many times, or called out of hours mental health services (she was under camhs) but you don't because being a parent trumps all of this. Teenagers rowing with their parents is normal, swearing, calling names etc is horrible but you have to stay strong and be an adult, be the parent. I take myself out of the situation in similar circumstances, walk the dog or nip to the supermarket, after 30 mins the flashpoint has calmed

Where on earth do you live that it was "getting dark" at 9pm?

That maybe, but from the child's perspective she was homeless. She didn't know the OP had made arrangements.

She may have thought she was homeless for all of around 30 minutes at most. It's not a safeguarding issue, is it? Plus I strongly suspect that she was already making plans to go round to a friend's.

Can I also make a sensible suggestion re phone. Offer to pay for a sim only deal (giffgaff have a £7.50 deal perfectly adequate) if she wants a fancy new phone tough, she needs to work. Child benefits do run until the end of August for a reason if they are at college.

How did your DD get into the older DD's flat, OP? Did/does she have money for travel, and clothes with her for College the next day.

When my DD was at College she needed her bike or travel money every day. And clean clothes, lunch or lunch money, her books & current notes, ongoing coursework, tablet/laptop, a jacket, etc.

I expect the College is concerned about the practicalities as much as anything. If you've got these covered, then good.

For those who call it ‘normal’, at what point does it cease to be ‘normal’? Are threats normal? How about actual violence?

To be honest, I personally think that a parent ceding control of the family home to a stroppy teen is not ‘normal’ (e.g removing themselves from the situation). The message the teenager is getting is ‘I won’ and they will repeat the behaviour.

I would hesitate to judge, though, as, hopefully, parents do their best knowing their own child.

There is a really ambivalent attitude on MN towards teens. A teen using intimidating language to another pupil at school deserves anything that can be thrown at them and yet parents do not have a right to feel safe and respected in their own homes.

Good parenting is not all fluffiness.

She's 17, she can learn to drive in a few months she can go out all night drinking if she chooses to. Tell her to get a grip and stop with the attitude and she won't have any problems.... college have to 'be concerned' because to them she's still a 'child'

Agree with anniehm - I've got the £7.50 deal, and GiffGaff go as low as £5 a month rolling SIM deal. Worth remembering for when things are calmer.