To think that the fat you eat is the fat you wear?

[florafawna]

New study finds that fat consumption is the only cause of weight gain

medicalxpress.com/news/2018-07-fat-consumption-weight-gain.html

I know carbs are the villain at the moment, but it's only a matter of time before fat is the villain again.

I am on a low-fat diet and am sticking to that, I think, even though I am unfashionable. For the moment!

Are you talking to me? If so, I think you’ve misunderstood or maybe missed one of two of my posts.

@WithAFaeryHandInHand

Thank you thats helpful I might try it.

I hadn't appreciated that you were lookig at it from a sustainability point of view. I don;t think the Diabetes UK plan especially enourges people to eat loads of meat or dairy if it reassures you, it starts off with people being aware of what carbs they can/should cut (which I don't think anyone here would disagree with being the processed and sugary carbs) and making gradual substitutions, emphasising healthy fats and lower carb choices. Including plenty of veg. It's a pretty moderate plan which aims to take people who are already or almost diabetic back from the brink.

Personal experience: lost weight when eating high fat, medium protein and low carb. This is without exercise. I wouldn’t go back to a high carb diet ever- it makes me feel really rubbish, bloated and is very aging

Paul McKennas rules are:

Eat whatever you want
Only eat when you are hungry
Sit down to eat with no distractions
Eat slowly and enjoy every mouthful
As soon as you start to feel full, stop

Basically mindful eating. It makes total sense and really does cut down on the amount you eat.

Also I think there is a massive misconception about how much meat and dairy lchf people eat.

I still eat the same amount of meat, albeit the fattier cuts (the thought of a plain chicken breast repulses me) but I just have more veg to replace the potato / pasta. And as I only eat OMAD I’d say my meat consumption is definitely at least the same if not less.

People aren’t gorging on meat and cheese all day. That’s sort of the point.

For example, I was at a ‘do’ the other day and it was all sandwiches and I took the standard 3 quarters of sandwich and just ate the filling (cheese and chicken/bacon). Then no cake obviously. I can’t have possibly eaten ‘more dairy and meat’

I appreciate what you say kew and mooncup. I think responsible, long term LCHFers like you probably don’t overconsume meat and dairy. As I’ve repeatedly said, the problem I have would be if the message from the government was that all of us should follow LCHF, as I don’t think that many people A) get it or B) stick with it long enough to get past the shoving-bacon-into-my-face-as-fast-as-I-can stage. Those who stick with it and do so responsibly should crack on!

And thanks for that re diabetes advice kew! I wouldn’t have expected that any current nhs / government advice would advocate for overeating meat and dairy. My worry was based on the hypothetical scenario that the government might start recommending the likes of Atkins, which, without experience and guidance would I think result in people going bananas and eating ALL THE COWS.

I appreciate what you are saying but there is also a massive obesity crisis and diabetes off the scales, essentially bringing our NHS to its knees

If the govt by some miracle did recommenced LCHF then the whole system of food production would have to change. Pretty much every cafe, restaurant, fast food joint’s menu would be deemed unhealthy and they’d have to change. As would the way we use our land. There is no reason to assume this is necessarily a bad thing.

What you’re describing there is not the same as the government advising us to follow LCHF. In your scenario they would make it happen! That’s completely different. If we were forced to follow any diet I imagine we’d all be a lot better for it. But it won’t happen unless something mad happens.

I mean, looking at fast food joints now, do you think they are in line with government’s current advice on diet? Nope!

Also, we do have some thinking errors around our ethics with animals.

Dogs are really bad for the environment. And if you are being harsh, they really serve no survival purpose for us as a species, they are a luxury in our advanced society. Yet you rarely hear anti-meat evangelists talk about limiting dog ownership

I mean, how many times do I have to say it, the problem isn’t LCHF done what I would call ‘properly’. It’s the people who just dip in and out, not really understanding and overconsuming meat and dairy.

If it was made law that we were al educated on pretty much any diet and all restaurants had to provide only foods that were in line with that diet, we’d all be a lot thinner.

I’m strongly against pet ownership.

www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/pets/

Anti-meat evangelists talking about pet ownership.

It’s interesting I think I’m getting this from your posts Faery : what might be the best way to eat for many, may not be the best message from govt. And that’s because en masses we don’t always make the best decisions. Even though plenty of LCHF do.

As an aside I’m not convinced people do pick it up that quickly, someone said below LCHF had been around since the 80s and we got fatter - I don’t agree with that. Mostly because it’s still at the margins and because it’s much more expensive. It’s not the cause of the increasing obesity.

Anyway back to the first para if you could choose one message from the govt - because nuance often doesn’t work - I wouldn’t go with the anti fat I’d go with go easy on the sugar because it’s addictive and cheap.

Yeah I like that marsha.

I think, if I had to go with one line from the government and I could be sure people would actually follow it, I’d say consume less. It works for things other than food too. Just consume less. Better for your wallet, your health and the planet imo. A lot of LCHFers on here saying they do consume less because of LCHF. So it works for all !

I was on the trial of the Diabetes UK low carb plan. I would say its a moderate carb programme. The 8 week programme sets you at 150g of carbs a day which is significantly higher than most lchf diets. They also say you should restrict fats if you need to lose weight. The meal plans include oats, bread and root veg. I have issues with the trial as I didn't have any follow up. They haven't asked me how I've done or if I've stuck to it. Im not saying it's not a good programme. It is but it's not really low carb. Just lower carb and no refined carbs. mooncupYour scenario just could not happen. How could there be enough land to grass feed cattle for the whole population, even if we pulled up all the grain fields in the country and replanted them?

Also, grass is easily damaged by overgrazing and weather. You can't just leave livestock on the same field for years, you have to rest it. So you'd need proportionally more grass fields (rather than the cows coming in and eating grain)

Cows need really rich grass, I’ve always sort of known this but it became glaringly apparent this summer when we had no rain for two months. Horses and other field animals all did well even on quite poor grass, but the cows had to be given the hay which was supposed to be for winter. They’re very water and food intensive animals, I can’t see that it’s economical to use them as food on a big scale.

As an aside I’m not convinced people do pick it up that quickly, someone said below LCHF had been around since the 80s and we got fatter - I don’t agree with that. Mostly because it’s still at the margins and because it’s much more expensive. It’s not the cause of the increasing obesity.

I said that it had been around since the 90s and we still got fatter. No way was it on the margins- I knew loads and loads of people who followed the Atkins diet. I'm not actually saying it is the cause of obesity (I think the cause is just that people eat too much) but it is just as likely as the "low fat diet" as both correlate with the rise.

@EdinaMonsoon

I tried the Bootcamp approach that I'd seen on MN. I lasted a week. Yes, I lost 5lbs that first week but my god I have never craved fruit & veg more. I felt so sick from the cream, butter, meat etc Vile. I was utterly miserable and it honestly made no sense to me whatsoever.

This makes me really, really cross. As the originator of Bootcamp, which I have been running on MN for 6 years now, one of the key things that I tell everyone (and indeed it's one of the rules) is that your carbs must come from vegetables and salad.

And if it didn't make any sense to you, did you bother to read any of the resources or information that I and other Bootcampers post? Clearly not.

@Caprisunorange
That’s exactly it, people evangelical about this way of eating have generally only been doing it a few months. It’s unusual to find someone who has been doing it a few years, and they consider themselves a long timer. No one stays on it for 10,20,40 years.

I'm a long-term low carber. I've been eating this way (mostly) for around 16/17 years now

@WithAFaeryHandInHand

My worry was based on the hypothetical scenario that the government might start recommending the likes of Atkins, which, without experience and guidance would I think result in people going bananas and eating ALL THE COWS

Atkins and his diet is much maligned. And the media is responsible for that, IMVHO.

His diet isn't about unlimited meat and no veg. It's a very carefully structured diet - but it's rare that I've seen or read about anyone following that structure properly. So I'd agree with you, that if people just try and 'do Atkins' without doing it properly, that's a potential nightmare!

And re sustainability - sorry, but I'm not going to give up eating meat or dairy. I don't consume massive amounts. Happily for me, there are plenty of other people going vegetarian or vegan (as reported in the paper this morning) for me to not worry about my consumption

Oh, and I have two cats two. Sorry. Not sorry.

To be fair Biwi bootcamp does involve a lot of butter and mayonnaise and double cream (and celeriac god help us). If you aren't used to it it can be a bit overwhelming.

Indeed it does. It's a high fat way of eating and I've never denied that, nor would I. But that should be in the context of a diet that includes lots of fresh veg, salad and unprocessed foods. I'm not telling people to live off only butter and cream!

One other thing I also advise people not to do, is to drink bulletproof coffee - which is heavy on butter - because it has so few nutrients compared to what they should be eating - i.e. a proper meal.

Do people really put butter in coffee? Surely you would be shitting through the eye of a needle?

All of this is so funny. Most LCHF people eat little to NO processed food, yet are maligned as being weird, all the while posters saying “cut the crap”

Suppose it depends on your definition of ‘crap’

I’d say pasta is absolute crap. Has no nutritional value in any way.

BIWI’s low carb boot camp is awesome, but like she is saying, people who do it with no idea why they are doing it just looking for a crash diet hallelujah solution with no idea how the body will adapt, are really irritating