To not want to go to Dubai?

[BrieAndChilli]

DH sister (much younger - in her 20s) is moving to Dubai - her friend moved over there, she’s visited a couple of times had a great time partying so has now got a job out there. All good. She’s leaving end of the month. We will all miss her but not DHs family are talking about going over there for a family holiday next year.
I’ve looked at flights and for the 5 of us it would be about £3k plus then accommodation as I doubt she would be able to put us all up plus spending money etc.
We have never spent that amount of money on a holiday but if she was in austrialia/Thailand/America I would scrimp and save as I know we would have a great time.
However from what I have read about Dubai it’s basically a giant shopping mall in the desert. Fine if all you want when you go on holiday is to sit around the pool all day and eat and drink all night but that’s not us nor the kids.
Would I be unreasonable to say thanks but no thanks I’d rather go on an expensive holiday elsewhere?

Not to drop feed but when we were in our 20s we went abroad for 3 years so MIL, SIL who was a young teenager, aunt and cousin all came out 2 years running for a holiday with us in the south of France.
However that was much much cheaper than Dubai!!

@Iced, Cornwall is pretty sleepy, so if there are cases of modern slavery here, then I would expect worse in other areas TBH.

@XingMing You're missing the point - deliberately or not I don't know.

The point is that slavery is a criminal act in the UK. When it is discovered the perpetrators are prosecuted. However, slavery - or something quite close to it - is the basis of the economy in the Emirates, and the other Gulf states. It is quite legal and quite open.

Do you seriously not see the difference?

why are people saying its horrible for women? I wanted to go alone in a month or so is it a bad idea?

I definitely see a difference @Iced, just possibly from another viewpoint. I see it from the POV of people from India, Sri Lanka and the Philippines who have opted for a few years hard conditions and hard work (not disagreeing on that point) to return or send home money to fund proper housing and education for their families that will set them on the road to university and careers in the modern world. I think those immigrant labourers are immensely brave and sacrificing a huge amount to go the the ME and work, but they are choosing to do so. Dubai is not capturing slaves; it's a dream of work that is being pursued, and sadly sometimes abused. But it's not a dream that's entered without thought and consideration or consultation with families.

@XingMing

You seem to be in denial about the well-documented abuse of Asian workers in the Emirates and other Gulf countries. This isn't just a few 'bad apples' as you are trying to imply, but is systematic exploitation of often desperately poor people. I doubt it's anyone's 'dream of work' (whatever that is) to slave away on a building site for 14 hours a day in fierce heat, only to return to a hovel without AC shared by several others. And then to maybe not even get paid your meagre wages at the end of the month.

But hey, it's their 'choice' and it's just the same in the UK, innit?

A lot of the bars in Dubai actively offer ladies nights. You are given 3 free vouchers each for alcohol. I have been a number of times and have enjoyed it. All staff no matter where you go are always willing to help you. No miserable faces and shit customer service! They are child friendly at restaurants, shops and other places. I stayed in a hotel and went down to the bar on my own. I ordered a drink and sat on my own and had no problem. There are plenty of nightclubs out there for x pats that can behave themselves. As the Dubai police do not tolerate unruly behaviour.
Bottom line is, don’t step out of line, it’s their country, their rules. If you don’t want to abide by them, then don’t go. Simple.

@XingMing so you're saying that it is ok for these migrants to be worked all hours and abused as it was their choice to come and work in these countries? Thanks for clearing that up!
You are right they do come to find well paid work and send money home to their families but they should not have to put up with the co dictions they do. Working 12hr plus shifts, hot bedding and being beaten and sexually assaulted.

Actually, it's not even close to slavery Iced, because the people who go to Dubai and Saudi Arabia pay intermediaries to get jobs that are easier to do and far better paid than anything in India. Working abroad is prestigious. It costs a Sri Lankan woman or man thousands in US dollars to get a job overseas. Don't blame the UAE, blame their own governments which are not creating the conditions in which people can find properly paid work.

Working abroad is prestigious.

Yes, cleaning up after spoilt brats all day every day or doing back-breaking work on a building site in the desert heat for 14 hours a day to return "home" to something like this is 'prestigious'. They'll boast to the grandchildren about this. Of course they will. It's all about the 'prestige'.

fanack.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/UAE_migrant_workers_accommodation-1200x801.jpg

You sound like a complete apologist for the dictatorial governments of the Gulf. I wonder why?

For the record my DC works more than 12 hours daily to serve people food in a five star hotel in rural Devon, so no, I don't actually believe all the HR shite being talked here.Plain speaking enough for you to get it?

If you genuinely, honestly belive that human rights - and specifically womens' and workers' rights - are on a par in the UK (imperfect though it is) and the UAE then there really is no point discussing this further with you.

The same can be said for modern slavery in England!! The people that wash our cars, do our nails and au pairs or nannies.
It wasn’t long ago that a French nanny living here was tortured, killed and her body thrown onto a fire! All behind closed doors. I do not condone these actions. But it goes on in all countries!

The same can be said for modern slavery in England!! The people that wash our cars, do our nails and au pairs or nannies

No, it really can't.

Are you saying that au pairs in the UK typically sleep in the kitchen, work 7 day weeks and are on call at any time of the night and day? Because that is the case for nannies and maids - the two are rarely distinguished - in the Gulf.

Nobody is saying that the UK is perfect, but if you think the situation is comparable to the UAE then you simply don't know what you're talking about.

Perhaps not. But I have travelled, not as a tourist, around most of the world and the people I have met and talked to would say that the opportunity to aim for something better for their family is worth the struggle, compared to what is on offer locally.

They could, of course, be wrong or deluded.

The maid that works for my family members in Dubai does not work long hours and is not mistreated. She has paid holiday and has days off. Neither is she looking after spoilt brats but is part of the family and she treats the children very well. It costs a lot of money to sponsor the maid by my family member. The maid could never earn the money in her home country that she earns with her maid job in Dubai. She sends the money home to her family. Her wage goes to educating her children at home. And it enables her family to live a comfortable life.
It’s her choice to do this and she hasn’t been forced into it.

Who hasn't been in a club in Dubai and tapped on the shoulder by an undercover policeman saying "You go home NOW"

Er, me. That never happened to me or anyone I know.

I don't think anyone is trying to say that Dubai is perfect. It has problems like anywhere does, but a lot of what is being written on this thread is Daily Mail style hyperbole.

I certainly felt safer there than I have in a lot of other places, including London.

That's great, but as I recall from my time in the Gulf, domestic workers often scrambled to be employed by Western families as they tended to treat their staff much better than the locals. Probably because - despite your claims that Western countries are no different from Gulf countries - generally speaking, workers in countries like the UK are regarded as being deserving of rights and respect, even if that not always be enforced to the full.

It's also a pretty huge leap from saying that because ONE maid is well-treated, then all the others are. Are you saying that the countless stories about abuse of domestic staff, and the reports from various human rights agencies on the subject, have all been made up?

In truth, we’ve had lovely times in the UAE. There are human rights issues. There are restrictions but if you consider they have engineered an amazing city from the sand, then you cannot fail to be impressed with the architecture.
No, it’s not just souless shopping - although there is incredible shopping. There’s sea, pools, water parks, ordinary parks, restaurants, night life, concerts, horse racing, boat trips, skiing, skating, theme parks, cinemas, just about everything with incredible service and luxury.

Amnesty have a bit to say about Dubai and the UAE.

Migrant workers, who comprised the vast majority of the private workforce, continued to face exploitation and abuse. They remained tied to employers under the kafala sponsorship system and were denied collective bargaining rights. Trade unions remained banned and migrant workers who engaged in strike action faced deportation and a one-year ban on returning to the UAE

No where near as bad as Saudi but really not comparable to the U.K. and the EU. It's very naive to imply they are the same, they aren't.

Honestly - dont go if you dont want to, they really aren't going to miss one person not going because of XYZ. A holiday is optional - maybe your husband can go with his family - it is his sister after all?

We've been - loads of times, its a stop over for us for a few days. Its hot yes - but so is my country of origin. There is so much to do - a bit of research will tell you that, however i think you have already made your mind.

I wouldnt live there - but i throughly enjoy visiting it.

• it’s not just souless shopping - although there is incredible shopping. There’s sea, pools, water parks, ordinary parks, restaurants, night life, concerts, horse racing, boat trips, skiing, skating, theme parks, cinemas, just about everything with incredible service and luxury.

There’s very little on that list that makes me want to spend £5k to do!! All of that can be found anywhere.

If I spent that much on a holiday I would want local food, amazing scenery and nature, museums and temples and culture and history, etc etc
I don’t have the money to go designer shopping, I would be very uncomfortable drinking knowing I could do something silly like fall over while tipsy and get put in jail, the ski place is £50 each for 2 hours - we can take the kids sledging up the mountain here for free when it snows!

It’s not DHs ideal either - no mountains to climb for starters! He’s not a beach, bar and shopping type, even less than me.

To be honest I think lack of funds means we can safely say we can’t go without it being a big deal.

Of course not. I’m going by what I have personally been around and have seen. A lot of x pat airline pilots living in Dubai all have maids and they are not mistreated. However, I have heard stories from my family members maid that her friends that are also maids, have been mistreated.
There are two sides to everything. I haven’t seen any women being mistreated or her rights abused. So I can only comment on my situation from seeing how the maid has been treated by my family.
Just like it’s the maids choice, it’s your choice to be entitled to your opinion.

Visited once, never sgain ..... Money grabbing sums up my experience .