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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not want to go to Dubai?

276 replies

BrieAndChilli · 28/10/2018 14:55

DH sister (much younger - in her 20s) is moving to Dubai - her friend moved over there, she’s visited a couple of times had a great time partying so has now got a job out there. All good. She’s leaving end of the month. We will all miss her but not DHs family are talking about going over there for a family holiday next year.
I’ve looked at flights and for the 5 of us it would be about £3k plus then accommodation as I doubt she would be able to put us all up plus spending money etc.
We have never spent that amount of money on a holiday but if she was in austrialia/Thailand/America I would scrimp and save as I know we would have a great time.
However from what I have read about Dubai it’s basically a giant shopping mall in the desert. Fine if all you want when you go on holiday is to sit around the pool all day and eat and drink all night but that’s not us nor the kids.
Would I be unreasonable to say thanks but no thanks I’d rather go on an expensive holiday elsewhere?

Not to drop feed but when we were in our 20s we went abroad for 3 years so MIL, SIL who was a young teenager, aunt and cousin all came out 2 years running for a holiday with us in the south of France.
However that was much much cheaper than Dubai!!

OP posts:
Restingbitchface101 · 28/10/2018 18:40

I lived there for 3 years and I will never go back. It is a Muslim country with Muslim beliefs and laws. Not that there is anything wrong with that but it goes against most things in western society. As in being gay is illegal and even being with someone who you are not married to is against the law. I've been stopped by police and had my skirt measured (it was to the knee) I've been shouted at and spat at by local women and propositioned by local men.
It's a very hypocritical place.

Dontsweatthelittlestuff · 28/10/2018 18:50

I wouldn’t go to any country that locks up rape victims for having extramarital sex.

UAEMum · 28/10/2018 18:53

As my username suggests, I live in the UAE and I love it.
All of these threads come up from time to time bashing Dubai. There is not an issue here with the oppression of women. I work with mainly highly educated women here and have never heard anyone complain about lack of freedom etc.
Like freesh I don't live in Dubai due to work, but I wish I did sometimes. Its exciting, vibrant, constantly changing and loads of fun.
But at the end of the day OP, there are just some places that we want to visit and some we don't. I've always fancied Hong Kong for a holiday and really never want to go to India. Hopefully one day i will go to Hong Kong!

XingMing · 28/10/2018 18:55

Yes, @restingbitchface, it's a Muslim country with Islamic codes of conduct and behaviour. If you lived there for three years, without being mauled in the street as a Western whore, went to the supermarket unsupervised by a male chaperon, and were able to work and drive, which of your rights were restricted? So you couldn't do a naked conga up the main road?

XingMing · 28/10/2018 18:58

Most of the bashers of the UAE have not been, as far as I can read.

Dontsweatthelittlestuff · 28/10/2018 19:00

UAEMum are none of your educated Muslim women friends married?
If they are then they would have needed their male guardians permission to marry. I would call this a pretty big lack of freedom but maybe not so important to others.

Bibijayne · 28/10/2018 19:02

How about going to Oman instead? And driving across/ getting a cheap local flight to Dubai to say hi? Really close and much more interesting place to visit.

www.lonelyplanet.com/oman

hubby · 28/10/2018 19:02

I am amazed at the views of some people on this thread. Have been living here for the past 6 years. I feel very safe as a woman and not mistreated in any way.
Modern day slavery/ exploitation of human rights - can't deny there is some of this but I am sure the same exists in Thailand which a lot of people have mentioned as a desired holiday place. Dubai requires you to be law abiding and if you live by the rules, you will have rights and access to help. A lot of labourers/ maids are not aware of the rules and enter and work via illegal means which is why they get stuck if they run into trouble or are mistreated.

It's not everyone 's ideal holiday destination but is one of the easiest places to live with lots on offer all year round - albeit indoors in the summer

IcedPurple · 28/10/2018 19:06

To all those saying that women's rights are just fine and dandy in the Emirates, I assume they were speaking for themselves, Western ex-pat women?

An Emirati woman needs the permission of a male 'guardian' to marry, and cannot marry outside of her faith at all. She is legally oblied to 'obey' her husband, who can divorce her on a whim and take up to 4 wives, while she can only divorce him in very limited circumstances. If a divorced woman remarries, she automatically forfeits custody of her children.

A woman who suffers from domestic abuse will find almost no support, and others have mentioned that women who are the victims of sexual abuse are often treated as criminals.

Now, I'm not saying that things are perfect in the UK. But anyone who is claiming that there isn't a serious problem with women's rights in the Emirates is either in denial or is just plain ignorant.

IcedPurple · 28/10/2018 19:08

Most of the bashers of the UAE have not been, as far as I can read.

Well, I've been, and I also lived in different parts of the Gulf for about a decade.

As a white, western woman in a reasonably well-paid job, I mostly enjoyed my life there. However, I'm not blind to the many very serious human rights abuses which those not protected by a Western passport are subjected to.

Restingbitchface101 · 28/10/2018 19:11

@XingMing trolling starting early tonight? I knew that I was living in a Muslim country and dressed conservatively. I didn't naked conga up Sheikh Zaid Road or have sex in the middle of the Gold Souk but I have been sunbathing on a private hotel beach to look around and see a local man wanking off looking at me. I have been shopping in the supermarket and been called a western whore and spat at by local females. I've had a Filipino maid crying on my shoulder saying her male employer had sexually assaulted her, his wife had withheld her wages and passport and also beat her because her husband wanted to have sex with her.
I've had a friend imprisoned in a Dubai prison for 2 weeks because someone said they saw him smoke a joint at a party (blood tests came back clean but still took 5 days to get him out).
Want me to go on????

XingMing · 28/10/2018 19:12

Oman is a fabulous place, but please don't kid yourself that it's non-religious. The important thing to understand is that UAE and Oman and most ME countries believe they are building their own countries, and that they are in their infancy, so they restrict citizenship to their nationals. It may change, but not soon, and even then, I would expect the rules to be set at a high level. Very good fluent spoken Arabic would be a minimum requirement.

IcedPurple · 28/10/2018 19:12

I've had a Filipino maid crying on my shoulder saying her male employer had sexually assaulted her, his wife had withheld her wages and passport and also beat her because her husband wanted to have sex with her.

Well, according to a poster above, maids only get 'mistreated' if they are there illegally. So I guess it's all their fault.

SharpLily · 28/10/2018 19:13

How it is possible to party when I assume alcohol is banned? The authorities used to turn a blind eye but can that be guaranteed? People (especially women) have got into trouble over this type of thing. Just no, no, no.

You assume wrong, in many ways. Alcohol is not banned.

There are an awful lot of assumptions being made here by people who admit they've never been. Those who live there have said this is wrong but they're not being listened to for some reason. I lived there and long term it's definitely not for me but I had a hell of a lot of fun (and alcohol Hmm) while I was there.

hubby · 28/10/2018 19:17

Iced purple you are being ridiculous. You saying men in UK never abuse the babysitters etc?

Of course shit happens here is well. But it's not the norm

W0rriedMum · 28/10/2018 19:18

I went on holidays and while it was nice (good weather, nice restaurants etc.), I will not return.
I don't drink much but like a glass of wine with dinner while on holiday. Dubai is becoming more conservative and it seems less supported that westerners can have a glass of wine in their hotel than in the past. The other thing you can't miss is the glaring difference between the rights of the workers - those same people who serve you iced melon on the beach and wipe your sun glasses - and the native Emerati. There is no route to gaining nationality for these generations of migrant workers who basically end up stateless.

7salmonswimming · 28/10/2018 19:19

I’d just say that if the point is to see SIL after months apart, doesn’t it make sense for her to pay one air fare to come back to the UK? Very unreasonable to expect 5 people to spend so much money on a holiday. It’s not a holiday if you don’t want to be there! It’s not like she’s getting married and you’d make an exception as a one-off.

Anyway, just go along with it for now, no major effort in spending. I reckon she’ll be desperate to come back for a visit pretty quickly.

W0rriedMum · 28/10/2018 19:21

@SharpLily - are your sure about that? It is an offense to have alcohol in your blood although everyone turned a blind eye. It's when there is a problem that having alcohol in your system will become a problem.

XingMing · 28/10/2018 19:21

From Cornwall, where we have had recent cases of modern slavery and indentured servitude, I'm not sure the UK has a pedestal from which to crow very loudly about human rights,

IcedPurple · 28/10/2018 19:21

Iced purple you are being ridiculous. You saying men in UK never abuse the babysitters etc?

No that isn't what I'm saying. But I've very rarely heard of such stories, whereas you hear about maids being abused in the Gulf countries all the time.

But the big difference is that if a nanny in the UK were to be abused by her male employer, she could go to the police and have a good chance of action being taken. An Indonesian or Filipina maid in a Gulf country would rarely even get to leave the house, except to escort Madam to the shopping mall and carry her bags for her, and as indentured labour will have almost no chance of securing a conviction against an Emirati man.

It's astounding that people are claiming that women are treated the same way in the UK and the Gulf. Like I say, that may be the case if you're white and western, but look outside your little bubble now and again.

Restingbitchface101 · 28/10/2018 19:22

So @XingMing it's ok as it's all done in the name of religion? Anywhere that puts such constraints on people needs serious consideration before going so you understand their culture and what to expect. As long as you're ok with that then go.
I see Dubai as more of a beach holiday, nothing historic to see except the fort or going out into the desert maybe to Hatta or Snoppy Island. The gold souk and the creek are nice but nothing to pay £3,000+ for. It is all malls, air con and Wild Whadi.

IcedPurple · 28/10/2018 19:23

From Cornwall, where we have had recent cases of modern slavery and indentured servitude

Plese tell me you're not actually comparing a few isolated incidents - where the perpetrators were prosecuted - with an entire economy which is based on what is effectively bonded labour?

Or are you?

SharpLily · 28/10/2018 19:25

@SharpLily - are your sure about that?

Yes, @W0rriedMum I am very sure. Alcohol is served in bars and restaurants in hotels, legally.

XingMing · 28/10/2018 19:25

If you are an expat in Dubai, and properly registered, then you are eligible for a license which allows the purchase of alcohol relative to your earnings.

Restingbitchface101 · 28/10/2018 19:27

@SharpLily yes it is served in hotels and restaurants attached to hotels but it is illegal to have it in your blood stream and if you don't have a permit you're not supposed to have it in your house, but that rule is always broken. Who hasn't been in a club in Dubai and tapped on the shoulder by an undercover policeman saying "You go home NOW"