To not want to go to Dubai?

[BrieAndChilli]

DH sister (much younger - in her 20s) is moving to Dubai - her friend moved over there, she’s visited a couple of times had a great time partying so has now got a job out there. All good. She’s leaving end of the month. We will all miss her but not DHs family are talking about going over there for a family holiday next year.
I’ve looked at flights and for the 5 of us it would be about £3k plus then accommodation as I doubt she would be able to put us all up plus spending money etc.
We have never spent that amount of money on a holiday but if she was in austrialia/Thailand/America I would scrimp and save as I know we would have a great time.
However from what I have read about Dubai it’s basically a giant shopping mall in the desert. Fine if all you want when you go on holiday is to sit around the pool all day and eat and drink all night but that’s not us nor the kids.
Would I be unreasonable to say thanks but no thanks I’d rather go on an expensive holiday elsewhere?

Not to drop feed but when we were in our 20s we went abroad for 3 years so MIL, SIL who was a young teenager, aunt and cousin all came out 2 years running for a holiday with us in the south of France.
However that was much much cheaper than Dubai!!

@Mummyoflittledragon why was your air hostess friend told she was lucky she didn't end up in the desert??!

Not comparable to the UK, but getting there when you look at these figures from this Express article, 2018.

Car wash SLAVERY scandal: Migrants are forced to work gruelling shifts for just £1 an hour
HAND car washes at rockbottom prices are everywhere: in supermarket and shopping centre car parks, in petrol station forecourts and even on odd bits of derelict land by the side of the road.
They offer a full valet service from £10 - and a simple wash and go for as little as £2.

But a shocking investigation reveals that many of the 20,000 hand car washes operating in this country are criminally exploiting workers.

They are typically staffed by immigrants from Eastern Europe who have been trafficked into this country on the promise of paid work - but without immigration papers they find themselves trapped in debt to their new bosses.

Often unable to speak English they are forced to work up to 11 hours a day for as little as £1 an hour, with even those pitiful wages docked to cover the cost of accommodation.

Those who try to quit are threatened with violence and deportation.

The exploitation extends even to putting their health at risk, with ruthless bosses providing little or nothing in the way of safety equipment or protective clothing despite the strong detergents used by many washes.

Latest figures show that about a 10th of the police operations tackling slavery in Britain involve car washes - double the figure of a year before.

Hmmmmm not really comparable. The treatment in the U.K. is illegal it happens but it shouldn't. That treatment in the UAE is legal.

Women's rights - let's see what Human Rights Watch says:

UAE law permits domestic violence. Article 53 of the penal code allows the imposition of “chastisement by a husband to his wife and the chastisement of minor children” so long as the assault does not exceed the limits of Islamic law. Marital rape is not a crime. In 2010, the Federal Supreme Court issued a ruling, citing the penal code, that sanctions husbands’ beating and infliction of other forms of punishment or coercion on their wives, provided they do not leave physical marks.

Husbands rape wives in the U.K. but it is illegal - the law says its fine in the UAE as long as it's not 'too bad.'

Make any excuses you like it is not like the U.K. and it is wrong.

It's the safest, cleanest place I have ever visited. Been going there since 2003, there have been lots of changes there and not all for the good. It amazes me how many people say they would never go and that there's nothing to do there. There's lots of things to do, jeep safari, water parks , Legoland, Ski Dubai, Souks its more than just shopping , tbh I don't even bother to go shopping when we go.

The hotels are amazing and my children love it there , give it try you might surprise yourself.

Safe and clean - you might surprise yourself and enjoy it but make sure you are not gay. If you are gay you might get arrested.

So make sure you pack away your conscience and your gayness and you could have a great time.

Depends what you value human rights or a bit of shopping.

Thing is I can see that Dubai is a work in progress - there is progress there even if you have to look for it. But what makes me feel like its something of a 'fur coat and no knickers' place is that for a place of its size it doesn't have a sewage main and main treatment works - something of a must in a desert given the lack of fresh water or a water main. Those big glitzy buildings are good at hiding the chambers full of raw sewage and the queue of tankers that have to clear them out and the queue of bowsers at the other end supplying the water.

Was taken to Dubai when I was 17 by a friend (i.e. her parents paid). You could not pay me to go back. HATED the place.

Other matters aside, don't even think of going anywhere in that area May - September inclusive. It's unbelievably hot, hard to imagine that kind of heat if you've never experienced it. In summer it's often too hot to walk barefoot on the beach.

I used to like Dubai many years ago (we were living in Abu Dhabi and Dubai was more lively) but I wouldn't want to go now, since I'm not into shopping and bling.

As I said earlier OP, it will be interesting to see whether your sister in law is still working there next year!

There are two sides to everything. I haven’t seen any women being mistreated or her rights abused. So I can only comment on my situation from seeing how the maid has been treated by my family.

Sorry, but that's a really daft attitude. Because you haven't personally seen it, it doesn't happen? So all the reports from Amnesty and other human rights orgs are irrevant because you haven't seen them?

it’s your choice to be entitled to your opinion.

It's not my 'opinion' though, is it? As I posted above, Emirati women lack what we consider fundamental rights, such as the right to marry without permission from a male 'guardian'. And the widespread abuse of migrant workers has been well-documented by various respected organisations.

But if you don't want to see it, don't look.

There’s sea, pools, water parks, ordinary parks, restaurants, night life, concerts, horse racing, boat trips, skiing, skating, theme parks, cinemas

There's lots of things to do, jeep safari, water parks , Legoland, Ski Dubai, Souks

Oh ambassador you are spoiling us with your lists of tacky toursist attractions.

Reminds me of an interview I read with an Dubai expat who said:

‘People say we have no culture here but it’s not true, we recently had an Elton John concert’

🤣

‘People say we have no culture here but it’s not true, we recently had an Elton John concert’

Seriously?

I’ll go op, I love Dubai

I love Dubai
I felt safer in Dubai than I have ever felt in England
It is a holiday hotspot, so obviously people love going there

I'm astonished by women who brush aside all that's wrong with the system in Dubai because it's "safe". By which I guess they mean it's safe for them, and sod the gays, the Asians, the raped wives and the indentured servants, none of whom the law or the system could give a rat's arse for.
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

There is no country which is perfect, if you scratch the surface.
Would you still go to Florida given the treatment of Mexican migrants in the USA? Think of those poor children being torn away from their parents at the border! Does it stop you riding the dippers at Disneyland?
Yes, shariah law does restruct who women can marry. You are wrong about divorce, it is actually not easy for a husband to divorce his wife. Its a very drawn out process.
If you come on holiday to Dubai, you will have a great time. There is so much to do.

I love these threads. 13 years in the Gulf and I've haven't experienced half the horror some people say they experienced at the airport.

Is this place perfect, of course it's fucking not. 40 years ago Dubai as we know it didn't even exist and most of the people were still living in small villages separated into tribes. They've tried to build a modern country and city in a fraction of the time its taken the West to build our "perfect" countries. There's lots to be done but avoiding the place isn't going to make it change any faster, quite the opposite really.

And anyone who is recommending Oman over the UAE, give your head a fucking shake. Muscat may look pretty, but there's a lot more human rights issues and mis-treatment of women there than there is in the UAE. 89% of Omani women still experience FGM. I visit Oman on a bi-monthly basis and have for years and have yet to meet an Omani woman that wasn't fully covered, and definitely not one with a job. Yet in the UAE I work in the STEM field and most of my co-workers are Emirati women.

Seriously, if I was going to judge a place by the media then the UK is a fucking cesspit. Why in the world would any one actually want to live in a place where 90% of the people are fat alcoholics on benefits. Kids are just going around stabbing people in the streets. You allow girls to get groomed into sex trafficking rings and your child services ignore child abuse. And you reward houses to teenage girls just because they get pregnant, WTF is wrong with you people?

I of course don't believe any of the things I just wrote because the difference between me and the people posting horrid things about Dubai on here, is that I've actually been to the UK and know that difference between the truth and the tabloid media version.

There is so much rubbish being spouted on this thread, I don’t know where to begin! They don’t have a sewage system??? They don’t discharge untreated or partially treated sewage into the sea like the UK does - is that what you mean?! They treat and recycle all of their waste water. Let me know when the UK achieves that.

And this - I don’t even know where to start with this utter nonsense:
“An Emirati woman needs the permission of a male 'guardian' to marry, and cannot marry outside of her faith at all. She is legally oblied to 'obey' her husband, who can divorce her on a whim and take up to 4 wives, while she can only divorce him in very limited circumstances. If a divorced woman remarries, she automatically forfeits custody of her children. “ 😆

If you want some genuine insight into Emirati lives, follow Khalid al Ameri on Facebook or Insta - he speaks English. Or Hamad Al Amari or I Love Qatar for Qatari perspectives in English.

Oman is a fabulous place, but please don't kid yourself that it's non-religious. The important thing to understand is that UAE and Oman and most ME countries believe they are building their own countries, and that they are in their infancy, so they restrict citizenship to their nationals. It may change, but not soon, and even then, I would expect the rules to be set at a high level. Very good fluent spoken Arabic would be a minimum requirement

You’re way off about the language requirements. It’s just a very informal chat with someone in the Ministry, simple stuff such as how are you etc. You would have to have been here for about 20 years though to get to the stage where you can apply unless you’re married to a national and you can apply after a few years. It’s changing all the time though and will only ever become more difficult as so many people have now been here for 20 years. And just recently people who had gained citizenship and were found to have retained their previous passports have had their Omani nationality rescinded.

And anyone who is recommending Oman over the UAE, give your head a fucking shake. Muscat may look pretty, but there's a lot more human rights issues and mis-treatment of women there than there is in the UAE. 89% of Omani women still experience FGM. I visit Oman on a bi-monthly basis and have for years and have yet to meet an Omani woman that wasn't fully covered, and definitely not one with a job. Yet in the UAE I work in the STEM field and most of my co-workers are Emirati women

I’ve lived here for 42 years and can say without any hesitation that you’re not as informed as you’d like to think you are.

Regarding Oman,
I have no clue with whom you are visiting but, just going to Carrefour, there are Omani women working there, some covered some not. My DH's Omani company employs both Omani men AND Omani women. These women are ballsy, bolshy able to hold their own with their male counterparts. No, they don't have pay parity but the keep 100% of their wages for themselves. Their husband uses HIS salary for bills etc. To do anything else is hugely shameful in Omani culture. These women are torn, do they want pay parity or would that feel like devolving the husbands duty to his family? They aren't brave or unusual, they are like women the world over, trying to make a good life for them and their families.

I’ve lived here for 42 years and can say without any hesitation that you’re not as informed as you’d like to think you are.

Great, glad to hear that. I still wouldn't recommend Oman over the UAE if human rights is the reason you choose your travel destinations.

YANBU.

Great, glad to hear that. I still wouldn't recommend Oman over the UAE if human rights is the reason you choose your travel destinations

As I previously said, you’re not nearly as well informed as you’d like to think you are.

As I previously said, you’re not nearly as well informed as you’d like to think you are.

Ok, please, tell me how the human rights are better in Oman.