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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To never drive my sister anywhere again?

427 replies

AmandaBuffamonteezi · 28/10/2018 08:16

I gave my sister and her two year old a lift home last night. My niece is 2 and I put her in my son's car seat which is the right size for her. She immediately started to struggle as I put her in it and cried. I calmly told her it was ok and that we had to wear our seatbelts.

My sister laughed and said "She never stays strapped in in her car seat. She can undo it now so she's probably upset she can't escape."

A bit of backstory, I was in a crash recently and although I have carried on driving I am definitely more aware that you can't control other drivers. Someone went in to the side of my car and then another went in to the back of me. DS was in the car too and thankfully was ok.

To get to my sisters you have to drive along a motorway and a few busier national speed limit roads with busy junctions. We started driving and my niece was still crying. I tried to distract her by putting music on but she kept saying "Out" and reaching for my sister.

She wasn't hysterical just a whingey type of cry. My sister then said "I can't leave her to cry. I'll loosen the straps so she can get her arms out." I told her not to because then she wouldn't be in properly and she could get hurt in an accident or if I had to slam on suddenly. At this point we were already on the motorway and this particular stretch has no hard shoulder. My sister then said "Ok I'll get her out and hold her then." Despite me saying no she did it anyway and I couldn't pull over or do anything. I told her how irresponsible it was but my sister just laughed and said "You'd better make sure you don't crash then."

As soon as I could I pulled over and told her to put her back in the seat. At no point did I shout or make a scene despite my sister raising her voice and using a few choice words. I refused to go until she did. She eventually did but then of course my niece was even more upset and was crying louder than before.

When I got home I had a nasty text from my sister saying that I am clearly in need of help following my accident because I overreacted and accusing me of being a judgemental bitch criticising her choices. She also said that I have no right to tell her how to parent her children.

I haven't replied but can someone please tell me if I've overreacted or if I was being unreasonable?

OP posts:
anniehm · 29/10/2018 20:04

Sorry, your sister is an idiot. Children remain strapped into car seats at all times when it's moving, end of!

AvoidingMarking · 29/10/2018 20:04

I would definitely not be driving her again if that was my sister and would text her saying something along the lines of 'I'm sorry you feel my behaviour is the issue here. Until DN is able to travel in the only legal and safe way, I will no longer be able to offer lifts.'

My daughter learnt how to get out of her car seat at about 18 months. She used to collapse her shoulders and wriggle out. There is nothing scarier than seeing your child's head appear next to you when you are driving down a dual carriage way at 60 on a road I had to travel on to commute to work. It's a miracle I didn't crash.

I bought a besafe belt clip within an hour. Not always the safest as in the event of a crash it can take longer for the child to be taken out, but worth it for the every day drive we had to do. We ended up getting another for my mum's car and the Childminder's car as she quickly learnt to get out of those too.

She is 3 now and hasn't needed one for a few months as she understands now that we need to keep our seatbelts on for safety. Someone drove into my car last weekend coming off of an A road.

I was so thankful we were able to teach my daughter to behave in the car. Yes she hated it being able to get out, yes she screamed but the consequences are unthinkable.

Well done on sticking to your guns OP. I hope your sister realises soon how irresponsible she is being.

purplebunny2012 · 29/10/2018 20:05

Oh yes, I'm hot on seatbelt safety and I had my DS rear facing until the recommended age of 4 even though my colleague suggested he was too old

Hannnnnnnxo · 29/10/2018 20:22

Well then, it sounds like your sister resents you - Massively so!

Perhaps she’s jealous of your relationship with your niece, or jealous of the fact that you passed your driving lessons and can actually drive.

She’s obviously insecure as she feels the need to exaggerate and augment her life experiences - typical attention seeking behaviour, she obviously isn’t comfortable with the raw truth and reality

Regardless - you as a driver have the ultimate responsibility in your vehicle. If her child isn’t safely restrained it will always be your fault if anything happens, doesn’t matter who the child’s mother is. If your sister wants to keep pandering to the results of her terrible parenting and letting her child out of the seat, she will have to get someone else to ferry her around!

Hannnnnnnxo · 29/10/2018 20:25

Also just wanted to add, I bet she’s a terrible driver and in reality just wasn’t doing well in her driving lessons and couldn’t cope. But she couldn’t admit that and admit something being her fault and something she needed extra help with - she had to blame the driving instructor instead! With normal people, if you don’t like your instructor you just get a new one - you don’t just decide to stop learning how to drive full stop.

alwaysanauntie · 29/10/2018 20:32

I used to work for an insurance company & often shed a tear reading the large claim advices (detail accidents with claims over £100k) especially when young drivers or parents had been in accidents causing their friends or children life-changing injuries requiring care and support for the rest of their lives (sometimes at a cost of many millions of pounds). It should be part of the driving test to understand the impact even seemingly minor accidents can have, so YADNU but your sister IDBU. Hope she grows up soon!

Survivedanotherday · 29/10/2018 20:35

Your sister is a complete idiot! Kids go through phases where they hate being in car seats, but that's just tough, it's the law!

MaidofEyes · 29/10/2018 20:49

My SIL was the same, couldn't understand why I didn't like my DN standing up in the back, between the front seats etc. Laughed it off like I was some kind of safety freak. Stopped giving them lifts.

redexpat · 29/10/2018 20:52

Just read your updates. So she is an Elevenerifer (if youve been to Tenerife shes been to Elevenerife). Yes I think she probably does resent your relationship with her eldest. Can you turn on your Zen and let it all wash over you?

manicmij · 29/10/2018 21:29

Hasn't your sister not heard about laws regarding children using child seats in cars and that the driver is held responsible for anyone under 14 not usng appropriate safety system. Sister should not be out in a car with your DN if she doesn't see the risks she is taking.

Uniquack · 29/10/2018 22:14

I visited my family in a country where car seats for toddlers/children are not mandatory. We went for a drive one day and my mum struggled to get the seatbelt on my nephew, so she gave up and said to just go, as it was just to the shops. I flatly refused to even switch on the car 'till he was strapped in. Mum argued with me, and nephew kicked up a fuss. There was absolutely no way on this earth I was prepared to put my nephew in danger. I told mum she either strapped him in, or they could both get out. I won that argument in the end.

You sister is a fool.

Weezol · 29/10/2018 22:26

I'd be very tempted to give her a framed bus timetable for Christmas.

flowergrrl77 · 29/10/2018 22:35

I’ve only read the OP’s posts...no, you’re not even a tiny bit unreasonable.

Given the uncle is a police officer, you should already know really that actually, it’s illegal and as the person unrestrained is a minor, the driver is the one that pays the fine

You can be fined up to £500 if a child under 14 isn’t in the correct car seat or wearing a seat belt while you’re driving.

Taken from: www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law

If the car is a classic car with no seat belts (one of the few exceptions to seat belt wearing) an under 3 year old isn’t allowed to be driven in the car at all!! Obviously I know you have seat belts.. just showing this for age where even the exemption isn’t accepted!

Mumoflove · 29/10/2018 22:42

You did the right thing and thank you for sharing and for showing your sister responsible behaviour. Lives are saved in this way.

JamForBrains · 29/10/2018 22:42

You are the driver and legally responsible for all children in the car. You can't just decide not to crash. I had an accident several years ago, a four car pile up. I broke my foot, caught on the pedals. DS1 (10yo) banged his head on the window. DD1 (2yo) was unhurt because she was strapped into a car seat. So no, YANBU in the slightest.

willyloman · 29/10/2018 22:47

You are completely in the right. It is illegal to drive with a child, or any passenger, not in the proper restraint. Legally you, as the driver, are responsible for everyone being buckled up. Do get your sister to google this, and the law, before she gets her child injured or worse.

Graphista · 29/10/2018 23:09

Not only is she a dick for putting her OWN CHILD at risk of serious injury or death.

She put YOU at risk of getting done for HER child not being LEGALLY restrained.

I've had similar issues with my sister in the past (now Nc this was one of the more minor issues!) I reached a point I refused to drive her or her DC unless everyone was properly restrained. The DC actually didn't have a problem with this at all as they're used to their dad insisting. Sister is an arrogant twat who thinks her own driving so great she'll never be in a serious accident.

In my case this lead to 2 occasions where planned days out were affected. My dd didn't miss out, hers did which is unfortunate, but I was clear with both sister and mother (she's very much mum's gc) that it was HER behaviour that lead to this not mine!

In your position I would absolutely be telling her VERY clearly that if she wants you to drive her & your niece anywhere then the rules MUST be abided! No compromises.

YOU'RE the one taking the legal, moral and practical risk of her child being unrestrained in YOUR car.

I'm also willing to bet if there WERE an accident and your niece was unfortunately hurt - even only a minor injury - YOU would be blamed forevermore!

On the parenting side of things she absolutely is creating trouble for herself. Part of parenting is setting boundaries, sometimes making kids do things they don't want to FOR THEIR OWN GOOD. If she can't manage a 2 yo she's screwed come teens!!!

I've been in a major accident myself I'm so thankful dd wasn't in the car. My car was stationery when I was hit from behind by a guy pratting about on his phone! Who didn't realise the traffic lights were on red. Shunted me into oncoming traffic meaning another driver (not their fault) hit me side on - the side dd would have been on! In the scenario you describe if that accident had happened with your niece in your car chances are at the very least she'd have lost an arm if not worse. Neither were fast roads either I was on a 30mph road and phone twat at least wasn't speeding! Road I was shunted into was a 40mph road. So again not a fast road - and you I think were on a motorway? So at least twice the speed involved? My car was a write off, the others sustained significant damage, I suffered whiplash, bruising and later discovered a spinal injury (complicated not immediately obvious on X-rays etc). Which has left me permanently disabled with pain & difficulty with mobility.

I'd be sending her videos of crash test studies as previously suggested particularly ones relating to the conditions you were driving in - because I believe if you had continued and there had been an accident at those speeds your niece would have been at high risk of death!

Joking aside I personally think that now we have the tech where this would be possible we SHOULD have cars that WON'T go until everyone's strapped in and the drivers passed a breathalyser!

Some sobering reading here:

https://www.theaa.com/publicaffairs/reports/looseeintheecar.pdf

There's even now starting to be dash cam footage of what happens in accidents. Not dummies but real people including children really being injured/killed.

LettuceP actually if the child is ABLE to get their arms out the straps the straps aren't correctly fitted. It should be impossible to do so. There's also gadgets available to add to too easy for child to undo clips although I think clips are being made harder to undo now too.

Excellent reply op. My sis is also one who CANNOT take the slightest criticism. So I'm not surprised you say yours is the same - that's why she can't cope with saying no to her child too, but it does make her a crap mother frankly!

All you can do is look out for yourself and not give in to her nonsense.

gardenflowergirl · 29/10/2018 23:46

OP I think you should send your sister the link to this thread, perhaps it'll give her some perspective on her foolish and dangerous wats of thinking.

Grrrrdarling · 30/10/2018 00:50

If you were pulled over by the police YOU would be held responsible for the child not being properly restrained not the mother. One tell her that unless her child is strapped into car seat properly & not removed from it in your vehicle she can whistle for a lift ever again. She is wrong not you.

Grrrrdarling · 30/10/2018 00:56

I would refuse to drive her anywhere without one on. Her responsibility but your mums conscience if, god forbid, anything was to happen where having seatbelt on would have saved sister.

Blondebakingmumma · 30/10/2018 01:12

Your sister is VERY unreasonable!

Friendlylynn · 30/10/2018 02:00

I agree with most people's answers on this issue.

However I would not wait and rely on your Uncle doing anything, or if he did, that your Sister will listen and take it on board in the future.

The impression I am getting is that your Sister and her Daughter regularly travel in other people's cars and do not buckle up, or maybe your Sister might, but not the child.

So not only is she making you potentially dangerous on the roads and driving illegally, but also any one else driving her, as well.

If that is her attitudes and parenting skills, then you need to report her to the police, social services, NSPCC and any one else in her life who would hopefully see this as the serious situation it is, as we all do on here.

Can I also add that I was a front seat passenger in a car on the way up to Scotland, many years ago.
There was a big crash on the motorway in thick fog and I went through the front windscreen.
I spent over two years in hospital but recovered, my best friend died and even now I still have occasional nightmares from it.
At the time seat belt wearing was not the law and we did not do it automatically.

My close friends always do the seat belts up every time we use their car and my Son will not drive off until every person, regardless of their age has buckled up properly.

LadyGAgain · 30/10/2018 03:19

She is endangering the life of your niece - her child. She is ignorant and selfish. Ask your uncle to explain to her what she would be charged with in the event of an accident. A 2 year old should be in a 5 point harness. How on Earth is her daughter able to free herself from that?
You are 100% correct.
Do let us know what happens with your uncle.

LadyGAgain · 30/10/2018 03:20

(Ah, she wouldn't be charged with anything as she doesn't drive. Interesting)

panago · 30/10/2018 04:33

The mere fact that your niece is 2 and can't sit in a car seat is very telling. If she doesn't listen to your uncle and continues to behave this way I would be inclined to call the police and report an unstrapped child next time they leave your/your mums house.

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