to think these two girls are being neglected. And what do I do?

[Whysoslow]

Two young girls 8 and 5. Live at home with mum and stay with dad for two days a week. Mum lives a very chaotic life which means the girls regularly go to bed late and unwashed. If they get head lice they are not treated as mum thinks the treatments are too harsh and bad for their skin. House is a tip and dirty (cat faeces on floor) The girls don’t have appropriate clothes and shoes for the seasons (walking around in leather boots in boiling weather in the summer due to not having sandals/flip flops, no winter coats etc) clothes are dirty and not changed; they sometimes go to bed in their dirty clothes as she can’t be bothered to wash them or it’s simply too late) The list is endless. The mum just has completely the wrong priorities and to top it all she is going away for a weekend for a friends birthday and will miss her 8 year olds birthday.

All of the above is not due to a lack of money or education.

I feel so sorry for these girls.

This should definitely be reported. If you are worried about repercussions do it secretly. Talk with the school and start a paper trail of events. Please take action but do so carefully. Also call the NSPCC to make a report. Social services need to know what is going on here.

Are you a neighbor? Irregardless this is not appropriate.

How you know is important.

If you have witnessed yourself then that's fair but if it's hearsay you could be used as a tool to bully a parent.

Children who grow up in these conditions perpetuate it with their own kids. Do something now if you are absolutely sure that what you have said is fact. All kids deserve a loving, clean home where they are kept clean, protected and taught that life should not be lice and filth.

Call social services, it sounds like these children need help.

Report to NSPCC as Social Services have to act on an NSPCC referral. School may have concerns (and they should be spotting if children are unclean!) but if they don't they would probably tell you to make the referral yourself because otherwise it's just heresay. NSPCC is my advice. Don't pass the buck if you have concerns.

Isn't this just typical fucking Mumsnet all over?
A poster is concerned for the welfare of two young children and asks for advice. What does she get? A shed-load of people accusing her of being a busybody, saying she should mind her own business, she's being judg-y (and why not?), asking if she'd effectively the OW.

^this

The attitudes of some on here are ridiculous. Sometimes it is necessary for just one person to be "nosey" enough to help children that need it. Being left dirty, living in a shit tip and being left to freeze in the winter is neglect. Hate to say it though, SS usually don't do that much, I know 4 children who live exactly like this, SS have been involved for years, the children are still living in a house so dirty I was nearly sick when I walked in!

In the end the kids were taken into care and the last I heard they were doing well with a foster family my worry about all this is that many people think it is the happy ever after solution, but in fact I thought that a tiny minority of children end up in a permanent situation where they are loved, and the majority are failed, possibly living in reasonable living conditions but without love, moved around, no one meeting their emotional needs, prey to people who prey on vulnerable children. Is this wrong, does anyone think? For this reason, for this sort of neglect OP I would do my best with the parents first. Read them the riot act.

@Iamtheoneandonly2018 at no point has OP mentioned this women has mental health issues so why assume that she has mental health issues because she's a shit parent, that's an insult to people who actually suffer

I'm in this situation, well similar and I'm unsure what to do. The mum is now 37 single but chose to have a child. Had mine unplanned at 20 but knuckled down split with the dad and dealt with it. I never had anyone put my child to bed yet she's put hers to bed may be 8 times and he's started reception. She split with dad a year ago but just not coping, the dad did majority when he was around but moved to USA for work. I'm in an awful spot, Iv helped Iv spoke discussed guided,yet she is still putting her first. No point phoning social services as if he was taken that would do no good in my opinion but I'm at a loss in where what who to go to. She needs help but what kind I'm unsure, my maternal instinct just took over me

To me, the missing of the birthday, is the least worse thing the OP listed.

Universe you seem to have a problem with my view that she may have MH issues. It seems you have issues .....

THIS.
Are these children happy? Do they cry a lot? Are they ill a lot?
That is what you need to ask yourself before you go reporting and causing no end of shitstorms

Again: does OP know that everything she has said is actually true? If it's a case of a malevolent XP spreading shit, then reporting the mother is going to do more harm than good.

Sub optimal parenting is not abuse.if the kids dont smell, are well fed and happy, I can't see snything much to worry about .

Is the cat shit what it has scraped out of its litter tray? House a tip could mean anything

Well I think that the op should seriously consider doing several things.

1. Report to the local social services.

1. Additional report to the safeguarding team as it may be a separate department.

1. Report to the NSPCC.

1. If you know the school, have a chat with the head about all the concerns.

Do not assume that each of the above will inform the others, as they may not be allowed too, or they may not bother contacting the others.

Once you have done all of the above and given them lots of detail, wait a few weeks and then recontact them once again, to check if they are acting on your concerns.

Do not just assume that all the department's will rush to sort this quickly, as there are often reports to be written, interviews to be done with both parents and possibly at least one or both of the children may be interviewed to see how they see their day to day living.

Add to that it might take time for these departments to respond, as they may all have high workloads and other just as difficult cases to deal with, within the area.

Just because the op has witnessed certain things that look like neglect to most people, it could be a sad way of life that has gone on for all of the children's lives and they do not see anything different.

Having written the above, the older one may well be starting to resent the home life, when they compare it to what they see each day at school and those kinds of hidden feelings, could potentially cause long term issues, on a emotional level.

I would also be very concerned about the girls families as clearly the Father and possibly other family members are either doing nothing to help, are not interested, or have been told to not interfere in their upbringing.

A further idea might be to see if either child is involved in any youth groups and if they are, to chat with the leader, as within some groups there may be a group social worker person, who can do something to help or advise the ok about the best person to contact.

I hope that the op can feel able to report all the concerns that they have and see real action taken to give the girls a better life.

I would suggest ensuring this isn’t just an occasional blip.

How often has she been there to see the cat has done its business in the house. Is it just she has turned up just as it had its accident and the mum was going to do it when she had answered the door to you.

I k ow a mum who puts her children to bed at 11pm regularly. It isn’t ideal but that is how they live, a very Mediterranean life. Her children are still thriving.

I know of mum’s who have had to miss their children’s birthdays due to work commitments. The other parent was there. Not ideal parent and child sad about it but they made the weekend before special instead.

The points I am making is not to rubbish your concerns at all. What I am worried about is are the concerns you have definitely backed up with evidence or are the family just not living up to your personal ideals.

Messy house, sleeping times, birthday.

Social services involvement is really invasive and judgemental and if the children are taken into care it is not a happy ever after situation.

Please be totally sure they most definitely are being neglected long term, that itnisnt a blip and it is not your personal ideals that are clouding your view.

If you have genuine concerns it’s better to speak out - the safeguarding training I had always emphasised that families are given support first IF they need it not ripped apart - obvs a training room is not the same as RL but this tagline from NSPCC always stays in my mind

Phone the school ask specifically for the person in charge of safe guarding as you have some concerns about paticular pupils you do not have to give your name the school must act on it
Secondly phone front desk ..that for SS
And let them know again you do not have to give your name .A word of caution they are ever so busy .terrible case loads .they might just do the barest minimum or nothing at all
This is why you must involve the school as well.OP thank you for your concern. After Victorias and the others .Its better to always report to the right authorities if you have any concerns .Someone has to be the voice of the vunerable

I know that we can only form an opinion on what the OP writes but I really get a sense that the OP dislikes the mum and is not telling us all the pertinent facts.

She won't say how she knows the information and hasn't put that the children are unhappy. She seems very judgemental and with very fixed ideas on parenting.

There is a massive difference between knowing that children are being neglected (they are dirty, unhappy and constantly hungry/have unexplained injuries/are dressed really inappropriately for the weather on a regular basis and you are seeing this with your own eyes) and believing a lot of rumours and bullshit which may be coming from someone whose agenda is to harm/punish the mother rather than help the children. Kids can be a bit scruffy but loved and properly cared for. Kids can be wearing inappropriate clothes because they insisted, and their mum decided that having the 'right' footwear wasn't the battle she was going to fight today.

Doesn’t sound neglectful, just dirty

WhySo
I think PPs are interested in your detailed knowledge of the neglect is because SS and associated services are so overstretched.

If, as your knowledge of their home life suggests, you have regular contact with the girls and have a relationship with their DF/DGPs/school or wider family, then you could maybe start to fix the situation now?

It's such a judgement call, i would flag it up quietly to the school. My youngest (SN) wore a Spider-Man outfit and wellies every day for 2 years. He also drew a Harry Potter scar on his forehead every day. It just wasn't something I cared about and made him happy. (Washed outfit every night).

Isn't this just typical fucking Mumsnet all over?
A poster is concerned for the welfare of two young children and asks for advice. What does she get? A shed-load of people accusing her of being a busybody, saying she should mind her own business, she's being judg-y (and why not?), asking if she'd effectively the OW.

This!!!

So many of the responses either slagging the OP off for being judgmental or something, or demanding to know how she knows the information (because obviously it's dodgy for anyone to ever know anything about anyone else's life), or implying that it is the OP's job to wade in and act like the family's home help, or angrily demanding to know WHY DID YOU NOT REPORT ALL ALREADY.

Christ almighty, the absolute state of this place sometimes.

Hope you get this resolved, OP.

If in doubt report it! It’s not your job to assess the situation, it’s social services. They’re not going to swoop in and remove the children they’ll help mum get her priorities straight. No point in trying to guess this or that, pass the information on!