to think these two girls are being neglected. And what do I do?

[Whysoslow]

Two young girls 8 and 5. Live at home with mum and stay with dad for two days a week. Mum lives a very chaotic life which means the girls regularly go to bed late and unwashed. If they get head lice they are not treated as mum thinks the treatments are too harsh and bad for their skin. House is a tip and dirty (cat faeces on floor) The girls don’t have appropriate clothes and shoes for the seasons (walking around in leather boots in boiling weather in the summer due to not having sandals/flip flops, no winter coats etc) clothes are dirty and not changed; they sometimes go to bed in their dirty clothes as she can’t be bothered to wash them or it’s simply too late) The list is endless. The mum just has completely the wrong priorities and to top it all she is going away for a weekend for a friends birthday and will miss her 8 year olds birthday.

All of the above is not due to a lack of money or education.

I feel so sorry for these girls.

Don’t hesitate, get a safeguarding alert ASAP.

"I needed to hear opinions first but all of the replies have cemented my gut feeling of what to do."

Have you thought about helping the mum?

You know. Giving your time. Giving your guidance. Giving actual physical help. Giving your experience. Giving your friendship.

This is neglect as the SW above says. Please report.

@PurpleDaisies, at the thread's beginning, lots of people offered alternative interpretations and explanations. Some suggested not getting involved.

Of course this should be reported, though I am also a bit curious about how you know. Its awful that the dad doesn't seem to care about the children either. I don't see why there is so much focus on the birthday thing..its not something I would do, but its not neglect at all. Dad could be having the child for her birthday so whats wrong with mum going away? The rest of it though would worry me a lot.

Genuinely shocked that people are making excuses for the mum here. If SS investigate, it is up to her to make these excuses to them and they can decide if she's looking after them or not. I wish someone had intervened on my behalf when I was a child with an abusive parent, experiencing extreme emotional abuse and physical neglect but in a wealthy environment. Some people are terrible parents, by choice.

regardless of intracacie-my 23 is still my baby-as such..they are only little.if you CAN help and dont.you gotta live with it.

I think you need to report. It could be something or nothing but I'd always say err on the side of OTT with CP concerns.

Actual birthdays aren't important in our family but the rough time of year is always marked. If I was invited to a one-off event I'd consider it, and DC and I would celebrate together seperately. It's different when it's indicative of a pattern of behaviour / lack of prioritising DC.

I've had social services called on me. Although the call was baseless and I felt upset at first, I was pretty happy that someone cared enough to make sure my little girl was alright. Yes, please do report this to SS and/or the safeguarding lead at the children's school.

It sounds like you're hesitant as you feel like it's not your business. I'm guessing sister in law, an you feel it's not your family. Trust your gut and report xx

Genuinely shocked that people are making excuses for the mum here.

^This. I wouldn’t hesitate to report this to Social services

While I believe that genuine concerns should be referred, I am personally upset by the mum bashing over missing the birthday.

Where there is a court order, sometimes you are forced to miss birthdays. I will be missing several of my child's birthdays as they fall within the other parent's contact. It is devastating enough without half of MN being judgemental about it!

OP, if you personally know the mum, maybe signpost them to some support from early help?

Genuinely shocked?

I have had dealings with SS as a result of my ex and his lies. He came up with shite like there was food on the floor, I never changed the bedding, didn’t feed regular meals, children were late to school, and even went as far as to say I had PND and was refusing to take my medication.

On the face of it, that made me look awful. Except none of it was true. Why he didn’t think they would have access to my medical records is beyond me but lo and behold, no PND and certainly no medication to take. He had ‘t been further than my front door in over a year so could have no idea what was or wasn’t on the floor. You get the idea.

This is why people are asking questions. To an outsider, going away on a child’s birthday sounds terrible. However, if child is due to be with dad and mum is stressed about it, removing herself from the situation and spending a few days in the company of friends is sensible. She’s not projecting her upset onto the child, child spends happy time with dad and gets a birthday again when mum is home. Win-win.

So, how does the OP know all this? She refuses to answer so whilst I would advise caution because we are dealing with children’s well- being, I will also be sceptical.

Having never been involved with anything like this before there are lots of concerns. It is irrelevant who I am. I could be family, close friend, colleague or neighbour. I could be the 16 year old baby sitter. I would like to help and get this situation sorted and then at least I have done what I think it right for those children.
Thank you for your helpful replies.

ohreally that sounds terrible but what happened when SS got involved? Presumably they could see it was baseless and it was all resolved quickly. If you'd needed support you'd have got it. He was being a shit, so you didn't need it. I still don't think that automatically means no one is at fault in this case.

I have no view whatsoever on missing a child's birthday btw. Things happen. I've missed birthday parties through work though not actual birthdays; my DH missed a DC's birthday last year because of work. Maybe this is the only weekend she can get away. I would not have my judgy pants pulled up too high over that.

I agree with ohreallyohreallyoh.

The OP 'thinks' the girls are being neglected - if what she states is true then surely she 'knows' they are being neglected.

Pets occasionally have accidents, bedtimes aren't always constant during holidays and some parents use the nit comb and conditioner method instead of the harsh chemicals. Not all children get a daily bath either.

Have you seen this neglect? Is there some exaggeration of a few separate events or is it just what you've been told? School staff seem to be very good at spotting neglect and are likely to have noticed if it exists.

mingmoo no harm in having judgy pants pulled up high when children have continuous head lice, or don’t have a winter coat when it’s cold and wet when parents are fully clothed in designer coats. Or when they are not washed or bathed for days. Would you liked to be cared for in this way? Would you treat your children like this?
The info about missing the child’s birthday IS relevant because it is not the first, nor will it be the last, when these kids are put at the bottom of the list. It’s part of the bigger picture of neglectful behaviour.

Who was with the child on their birthday?

Sad to read that some posters don't see this as an obvious pattern of neglect. Its common sense.

whysoslow that's exactly my point about the birthday. It's because it's part of the bigger picture which I'd say shows huge neglect, and all put together isn't good. It is, as you say, as if the children are at the bottom of the list of priorities. I don't know why so many people are obsessed with how you know. It's irrelevant and there could be any way you know.

Without knowing who you are and how you are involved no-one can know your bias so cannot really comment. Head lice etc. Won't be considered particularly neglectful. The only thing that stands out is no winter coat. : ( but the dad will be held equally accountable for that)

I work in social care and all this does sound like neglect and I would definitely recommend completing a referral if you are a school/GP etc. Or call your local social services helpline immediately and pass on this information. It's better to be safe than sorry- too many children have suffered because people have not passed on information because they felt it wasn't important enough.

Maybe that mother needs help or maybe she's just abusive. Children come first. They do an assessment anyway so nothing drastic will happen unless something is seriously wrong .

Maybe the mum.has MH issues and needs help?

Obviously I don't know the OP's relationship with the mum, could the OP help?

He was being a shit, so you didn't need it. I still don't think that automatically means no one is at fault in this case

No, of course not. It sounds awful. But if the OP has never been in the house and the info is 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand based on Mrs X’s first cousin’s partner’s dog said... then all may not be as it seems. If the OP is a close friend, is in the house regularly, that would make the info more reliable and make it clear that SS need a call.

@Whysoslow defiantly tell SS everything they will take appropriate action!