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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that your female reproductive organs actually matter?

359 replies

Pamspeople · 24/10/2018 12:27

Just read this on a Labour Party Facebook page. Am gobsmacked - the very few issues that pertain to having a vagina womb and ovaries ??? -Confused

to think that your female reproductive organs actually matter?
OP posts:
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6
Feminist4 · 26/10/2018 08:35

Cave mum, I believe that the anti- vacxers are on this board. It is the anti trans movement which bangs on sbout biology.

RedToothBrush · 26/10/2018 08:40

Yes because biology is the entire fucking point!

People might still try and debate that the sun goes round the earth. And throw something out there that looks a bit like science. Or resembles a conspiracy theory.

But the earth still goes around the sun whether you like it or not.

Women have problems which owe a huge amount to their biology.

Feminist4 · 26/10/2018 08:42

Ted toothbrush I belief the flat earth argument is very similar to the anti trans argument.

CaveMum · 26/10/2018 08:47

Let’s also take the case of Gary (Carrie) Cooper. HE (yes HE) has recently been convicted of sickening acts of child abuse. But because the little snowflake now identifies as a woman his crime has been reported by many media outlets as “Woman convicted of child abuse” and his crimes will be officially recorded as being carried out by a woman.

This, and other cases, will distort the crime figures and to all intents and purposes make it appear that women are suddenly committing more crimes.

CaveMum · 26/10/2018 08:49

Feminist4 can you answer my archeology question? When archaeologists look at human remains they identify them as male or female based on biological markers. Are they wrong too?

CurbsideProphet · 26/10/2018 08:59

All of this reminds me of the Emperor and his beautiful new suit. A lot of MPs and those who should know better are too afraid of the consequences of calling out what is right in front of them. The Emperor is naked.

It's like being in one of those dystopian novels where an extreme male rights group have risen to power and imposed strict restrictions on women and the general population. We can only say what they allow us to say. We can only believe what they allow us to believe. We are silenced if we disagree. The thought police will show up at your door. Chilling times.

hazeyjane · 26/10/2018 09:05

Some researchers now say that the definition should be widened to include subtle variations of anatomy such as mild hypospadias, in which a man's urethral opening is on the underside of his penis rather than at the tip. The most inclusive definitions point to the figure of 1 in 100 people having some form of DSD, says Vilain.

The article also goes on to include women who have male pattern excess hair and fertility issues (so PCOS I guess)

This is astounding. It is also bullshit.

GatherNoMoss · 26/10/2018 09:09

This is colonization! Plain and simple and right before our eyes. Think of womanhood, it's borders, its land, its lived experience, and then think of Trans coming in to stomp all over us, silence us and take over! We need to be stronger and more assured at defining what womanhood is and make sure our daughters know it, our partners know it, our sons know it. "No-one is more easily robbed of their culture than those who do not know they have one"

CaveMum · 26/10/2018 09:09

Agreed Curbside.

It’s ironic that the only MP publicly standing by women at the moment is a white Tory man.

RedToothBrush · 26/10/2018 09:10

If you have PCOS you are a man! 😅

hazeyjane · 26/10/2018 09:16

Yes RedToothbrush, obviously and my ds (who I have birth to...even though I am obviously a man - I have PCO), is actually a girl (he has hypospadias), which weirdly has never been bought up with us by his doctors despite having extensive genetic testing. Thank God for that article shining a light for us.

CaveMum · 26/10/2018 09:17

Oh dear RedToothBrush, guess that means I should go and take my skirt off then... Shall I tell my two children they have two daddies now or wait till after lunch?

Henryismyfriend · 26/10/2018 09:17

Who cares about speculums.
Anyone who's had one used on them to have a part of their anatomy examined for irregularities that can lead to illness.
Anyone who's illness has been diagnosed due to the use of a speculum (amongst other diagnostic tools) and their lives saved.
Anyone who's family member has had their life saved through the use of a speculum as a screening tool.
Health professionals who use them on a daily basis to help diagnose life threatening illness.
Could probably add a few more to that list.

Trans women have it so much harder. I care about all the marginalised in society, not just me and mine.

Why is it about who has it harder? What purpose does that serve? Having been born with a certain anatomy I can relate to others born with this anatomy and the challenges having that anatomy faces. It doesn't mean I'm closed to the idea that being born with different anatomy presents different challenges. It doesn't mean I can't sympathise or be aware, but as I don't have that anatomy, I can't physically face those challenges, know all the issues and therefore be as informed on them as someone who does experience those issues.

VisitorsEntrance · 26/10/2018 09:24

Oh hell. I get hair on my chin. Am I a man?

DH had to go to the hospital the other day to have a male procedure and examination. The bits being looked at were male only bits.
On the form to fill out there was a box for gender, not sex. Could this lead to a doctor wondering why he is doing a prostate exam on a woman?

Noqont · 26/10/2018 09:30

Trans women have it so much harder. I care about all the marginalised in society, not just me and mine.

We all have our battles in life. So what? That's life. You can argue until the cows come home but it will never change fact. Transwomen are not women. They are men. They will always be men. And I doubt your insistene to the contrary has convinced one single person otherwise. To the contrary, your 'debate' will sit here and #peaktrans even more people. So thanks for helping with that :-)

Feminist4 · 26/10/2018 09:30

Er no. Smear tests aren’t pleasant, but if that is your anti trans argument, it’s poor

Noqont · 26/10/2018 09:32

Er no. Smear tests aren’t pleasant, but if that is your anti trans argument, it’s poor

Not anti trans. Pro women. Biological women. Which anyone with male biology is not.

JacquesHammer · 26/10/2018 09:33

Having been born with a certain anatomy I can relate to others born with this anatomy and the challenges having that anatomy faces. It doesn't mean I'm closed to the idea that being born with different anatomy presents different challenges. It doesn't mean I can't sympathise or be aware, but as I don't have that anatomy, I can't physically face those challenges, know all the issues and therefore be as informed on them as someone who does experience those issues

Brilliantly put.

It isn’t transphobic in any sense to suggest someone who has male biology isn’t as equipped to discuss and represent the issues women face pertaining to their biology as a biological woman.

GatherNoMoss · 26/10/2018 10:03

When we are confronted by forms that do not acknowledge sex, we need to write it in and cross out gender.... why not! F* the system up, that does not recognise reality.

ToPlanZ · 26/10/2018 10:19

It really is irrelevant how hard transpeople have it, it still doesn't mean they can ever speak for the experience of biological women. They can't, they won't and they never will be able to. Plus let's face it transwoman start out as men and all the privilege that that entails, so I submit it's utter rot to say it's tougher for them, it's just different.

It's always almost impossible to believe that your hard won rights will be taken away. That a developed western society like ours will erase women's rights, but there are a huge number of misogynists like Feminist4 who are gleefully willing to do just that. With his nonchalant who cares about this and what does this matter, he's quite happy to let his hatred of women erase their place in this world. I always think Iran is a salutary lesson. You only need look at pre 1970s photos to see how times can change for women. Iranian women went from being free to completely oppressed. We've already got men with XY chromosomes taking women's sporting places away, now their political voices are being erased.

We know it's wrong, we know it's rubbish, we know people like Feminist4 have their own antiwomen agenda. There's going to be a fight ahead for women to protect our rights and identities.

mildshock · 26/10/2018 10:49

Christ, who can I vote for now then?

Can someone please explain it to me, as if I were a child, why can't trans-women's rights be separate to women's rights?

I'm not against transwomen, I'm good friends with several. I'm happy that they're happy, but their struggles are separate to mine, as natural born female.

A transwoman may know what it's like to be sexually harassed and assaulted, and what it's like to be discriminated against, but they do not know what it's like to experience periods, female puberty, endometriosis childbirth, female infertility, menopause, gynaecological problems, ovarian cancer, breastfeeding, hysterectomies etc etc.

A transwoman cannot understand how I felt at 13 years old, when I felt my period flooding my trousers in Geography. I begged to go to the toilet, but my male teacher said "You'll just have to hold it in." Hmm

After 10 minutes, there was a small pool of blood on the chair, I took off my jumper and sat on that. When that was wet through, I sat on my bag. My classmates noticed and I was bullied for quite some time after that lesson. I had wet (but thankfully not used) tampons thrown at me. That teacher never did apologise, even after my mum complained to the school.

I cannot possibly comprehend Transwomens struggles, and their pain before, during and after transition.

Transwomen should stand solely for transwomen, because they do not understand the medical, social, and emotional issues of being biologically female.

I wouldn't be concerned by changing next to a transwoman who I personally know. But with Self-ID you can't tell the difference between a genuine transwoman who poses no threat and a dangerous male predator taking advantage of a loophole. That's the problem.

No one is saying that all trans people are dangerous, and that they're all out to attack us. What we're saying is that there are dangerous men who absolutely will exploit this law because it gives them the opportunity legally.

PearsOfWisdom · 26/10/2018 11:51

Can someone please explain it to me, as if I were a child, why can't trans-women's rights be separate to women's rights?

Because Trans activists are not campaigning for their own rights , they already have them. They want to take away women’s rights to safe spaces and to force others to call them women.

It’s all about dominance and subjection.

If they had their own spaces, sports events, political party officers it wouldn’t be good enough, it wouldn’t count.

That’s why so many trans sexual people ( those with gender dysphoria and others ) are disassociating themselves from TRA dogma. Because they just want to get on with their own lives and not harass women.

QuentinWinters · 26/10/2018 11:56

Ted toothbrush I belief the flat earth argument is very similar to the anti trans argument.
Bwahahahahaha
10/10

CaveMum · 26/10/2018 12:04

It is interesting that the vast majority of vocal trans women have not bothered to have surgery to remove their male parts.

I believe the statistic is something like only 5% of trans women ever have surgery, so that’s 95% still walking around with a fully functioning penis. Strikes me as a little strange that they are so vocally adamant that they have been born into the wrong body and it’s soooo traumatic for them, but yet they’re not prepared to actually change anything bar putting on a frock and some make up 🤔

nonetworkaccess · 26/10/2018 12:25

CaveMum spot on.

I wonder... If I identify as a man will my pay go up in line with other men?