to expect DM, 70, to sort out her affairs

[10yellowbuckets]

Should possibly have put in elderly relatives, but posting here for traffic.

Usually have an excellent relationship with DM. Over the last 2 years or so its become increasingly strained as she refuses to sort out her affairs. She is an extremely fit, active and usually very sensible 70 yo with no health issues. Every time I suggest that she sorts out a PoA, her Will or her large 4 bedroomed house full of shit house full of very important stuff she responds with either ' 'I'm not planning to die any time soon' (which is ironic seeing as her DH died at 50) or 'its like you want me dead'. We've now had several huge arguments over this.

She knows her not-fit-for-purpose 25 year old will is going to cause a family shit storm, but won't change it (she says she won't be around to see the arguments) and she also knows that its going to take me (because DBs won't help) years to sort her house out which has stuff crammed in every cupboard, wardrobe, drawer and flat surface that you can pile anything.

Very occasionally she accepts help to clear out a cupboard, but next time we visit it will be full of something else.

I have a friend IRL who has a very similar problem, with no solutions. Does anyone have any suggestions or do I just have to accept that when she dies be that in 2 years or 30 that things will be horrible because she didn't want to sort it out when she was alive. AIBcompletelyU to keep bringing this up in the hope that my nagging will get her to do something?

My DH and I made wills last year. We also wrote down all the financial stuff that the other needs to know, bank accounts, insurance policies etc. I was 38 at the time and he was 39.

I really can't understand people who claim that you have enough time at 70. My mum was dead at 62. My Fil died age 63 (and left a financial mess for Mil). Both didn't actually want to die so young. My dad is 71 and starting to get dementia. You might live till 110, some people do, but I wouldn't count on it. Best to get your shit together now.

Who do you suggest acts as poa? Sounds like you dont have the best relationship with your sibling.

You are not handing anything over with a PoA. DH and his siblings have two, health and finance, for their mother. She's still compos mentis, so the paperwork is sitting in a drawer. We also have a copy in our drawer, with our Wills. But if she does suddenly become incapacitated it's there ready and waiting.

I don't know how many times we have said this, and yet people don't get it.

Beginning to get ill and ending up incapacitated is long road.

Not necessarily.

Totally agree with those on 'get your shit together front'.

My DM is 88, very demented and physically broken (I'm a long term resident on the elderly parents thread.) We are due her POA on Nov 8, which means we can sell the house to fund her care. She has too much money to get any social care (and that's not a lot of money actually ...)

In the meantime, DH has a cancer diagnosis and we are talking about getting our wills looked at (not revised since the children were tiny) and will also get POA in place in the next few weeks.

As for the time taken to clear stuff out... my father (dead 22 years) had over 50 years worth of diaries, ring binders, ccd letters etc. I have spent about 12 hours going through them, and have a pile for me and a pile for my DB of things I think we both might want to read again. Do we want to keep them? No idea. But had I just thrown it all away, I would have deprived DB and I - and our children - of the opportunity to see this stuff. Someone has to do it.

In my experience someone having a clear and precise will does not mean that a shit storm will not ensue, or that there won't be plenty of admin and things to sort out post death sadly.

Folks don't seem to understand that POA's are much easier to do while you are well. Who can be bothered with things like that when not feeling good? And they can not be done at all if you have dementia, it is too late. I have read the information needed to register a death and have written it out on a sheet of paper ready for whoever gets the job. I don't intend dying for years yet, but you never know, do you. You have my sympathy, OP

YANBU but there's little you can do. It sounds like the relationship is somewhat tense, and I think your wisest move is to accept it will be a nightmare and you'll end up with very little, sentimental or otherwise.

I'm executor of my mum's estate. Her will is straight forward enough (left everything to my DC) but actually getting it all sorted out is really time-consuming. She'd changed a lot of stuff to online (utilities etc) and not printed anything out. She had so much stuff and due to neither my brother or me living close (400 miles away) we ended up paying for a firm to take most of it away. £900!! Luckily my brother had the funds to pay this and when I get authorisation I will pay him back out of her estate. If I didn't get along with my brother I'd imagine the whole thing would be a nightmare.

My mum wrote her will in anger, and tbh I do wonder if she really meant for it to be this way...but here we are. Oh and she was 70 when she died (though she had health problems, it was not really expected).

Because it’s not accurate Peregrina. You’re handing over the power to other people to make decisions on your behalf.

I have PoA for my aunt for property/finances and health, and I have to make decisions for her wrt both.

I think people are giving the OP a hard time needlessly.

We had a similar issue with MiL. We wanted her to do a PoA but she trotted out lots of pathetic excuses. My mum died very suddenly at 54 (having made a will) so I know it can happen at any time. MiL was a stubborn old woman so we decided to be a bit devious. I rang my dad who had ended up looking after his aunt's affairs. G Aunt was as fit as a fiddle at 92 and could still touch her toes. However, she had dementia and after being found wandering by the police, was put into residential care. Dad had to apply to the Court of Protection and it was all a nightmare. His advice was to avoid the CoP at all costs,

Dad wrote me a letter with the intention that I would show it to MiL. It detailed all the hassle he had had with the CoP and how he had drawn up a PoA. Dad wanted me to show it to MiL so deliberately wrote a bit of personal gossip in there. When MiL next came to see us, I showed her the letter. She read it about 15 times, commenting each one "oh, your dad thinks x, does he?" Although my dad was some 11 years younger, MiL took his advice and made a PoA (which we didn't end up needing). Her will was updated and it made dealing with her affairs very simple. This all happened when she was in her late 70s. She creaked along to 88. Dad has had it all sorted for years. I have a copy of his will here, 230 miles away.

I need to sort it all out too. Part of me is waiting until DD2 turns 18 next spring as I won't then need to include anything about childcare. However, I don't want ANY government to profit from me; as a public sector employee, they have had more than their pound of flesh. I want to set my husband & girls up to make life a bit simpler.

Given the choice, I would much rather my mum had lived to meet her granddaughters. She didn't, so I feel responsible to safeguard her legacy for them.

I think leaving your affairs in order is one of the kindest things you can do for your loved ones.

I would hate to think of my children having to deal with the shock and the grief of losing a parent and then on top of that deal with hours and hours of searching for paperwork, trying to second guess funeral wishes and make endless drives to the tip. I hope to be a good parent until the day I die. Obviously I can’t continue to parent from the grave but leaving a biased Will, along with a house stacked full to the rafters with shite is definitely not going to be my parting shot to my much-loved children.

This view of ‘it’s not my problem, I’ll be dead so someone else can tidy up my mess’ baffles me. It is lazy and selfish.

The OP is not being grabby - it is perfectly understandable that she would be irked by seeing her brother and his wife rub their hands over a tidy little inheritance while she gets nothing, even though she is the only one who actually spends any time with her mother.

I also think it is really sad to think of you not getting her jewellery, OP. I am leaving my jewellery to my lovely daughter (there is so much sentiment tied to my wedding rings, for example) and I love the thought of her having them when I am gone. I would hate to think of them falling into the wrong hands. My Will actually needs updating so I will be sure to get on with this and to specifically mention the jewellery, so thank you OP.

It's perfectly sensible to sort out these things but it depends on the personality of the individual as to whether it's possible. FiL (77) would be so affronted if DH raised this with him that I can imagine him not speaking to us for a year.

There are different types of PoA aren't there? I know my mum had done one for in the event of her being declared no longer competent (can't think of the right term) but also my in-laws have PoA for MIL's mum whereby they have access to her bank etc.

knowing full well that everything will fall to me to sort, really pisses me off.

Only if you allow that to happen. I'd be double damned if I'd sort out anything, especially if I was disinherited. And I'd be sure my 'D'Bros knew that, too.

Don't be a martyr. It never gets you anywhere and certainly isn't going to get you one penny more after she goes. It's one thing to want your mum to be comfortable and cared for in her lifetime, since you've said she was basically a good mum. I respect that. But just as she's said 'I won't be here to see it' to you, you should say the same thing to your brothers about the mess her affairs are in AFTER she's gone!

I can't understand why your mum says she won't put you in her will if she rewrote it?

YANBU to be frustrated. My mum was semi-organised, but in other ways she wasn't. It's hard.

@FrayedHem - there are financial POA and health POA.

And they can not be done at all if you have dementia, it is too late

Nonsense. You can get rapidly progressing dementia, but much dementia decline is quite slow.

For those saying 70 is too young to be worrying about PoA, are you aware that Martin Lewis (the money saving expert guy) advocates EVERYONE getting Lasting Power of Attorney from about the age of 30. It’s not just about finances, it’s about health and well-being, and lets be honest anything could happen to anyone of us at any moment.

Lasting Power of Attorney does not mean handing over control of your affairs with immediate effect. It can be put away and forgotten about until it’s actually needed, because let’s face it, if you don’t bother sorting it until you need it, you are probably already too late.

Quite Frankley! Once any form of dementia or mental illness is diagnosed it's too late.

And as I said earlier- it makes no difference whether the POA was created when the person was 30 or 80, it still only takes effect when the person is too ill to look after themselves- it's a legal and medical matter. Just because you've signed one doesn't mean your relatives have any access to your finances under normal circumstances. So there's really no reason not to make one earlier rather then later.

My FiL left his power of attorney with his solicitors. This has actually been helpful although it means they must be payed for their services. My Bil is an awkward character and this way everything is being done in FiL interest no argument. However they have been very helpful and listened to all my Dh suggestions once they realised he is doing his best and involved with FiL care.
Going back to the OP I think there's a difference between sorting out your will and poa and getting your house cleared up.

Once any form of dementia or mental illness is diagnosed it's too late.

Not true, as I said.

That's what we were told by a Dr, whatever you have said.

Just to add my FiL knew his solicitor well and left him as the named person on the poa. As it only came into force many years later this solicitor was retired but he is actually taking this as a special case along with one of the other solicitors. However this just shows the poa has no effect until it may be needed.

TatianaLarina My dad dropped down dead of a heart attack at the age of 61 with no warning. My mum was left severely incapacitated by an accident at the age of 58. Pretty sure neither of them planned it that way. Dementia is only one of many, many possibilities. Dying suddenly or at a young-ish age is not, sadly, out of the realms of possibility for all of us.

Coping with sudden bereavement or the advancing decline of a parent is stressful enough - why not get the straightforward bits of the paperwork etc out of the way so it is one less thing to worry about?

TBH there's no sensitive of raising this. My parents are both still alive, but in failing health, and I haven't wanted to upset them any further by broaching it.