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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to expect DM, 70, to sort out her affairs

360 replies

10yellowbuckets · 23/10/2018 16:55

Should possibly have put in elderly relatives, but posting here for traffic.

Usually have an excellent relationship with DM. Over the last 2 years or so its become increasingly strained as she refuses to sort out her affairs. She is an extremely fit, active and usually very sensible 70 yo with no health issues. Every time I suggest that she sorts out a PoA, her Will or her large 4 bedroomed house full of shit house full of very important stuff she responds with either ' 'I'm not planning to die any time soon' (which is ironic seeing as her DH died at 50) or 'its like you want me dead'. We've now had several huge arguments over this.

She knows her not-fit-for-purpose 25 year old will is going to cause a family shit storm, but won't change it (she says she won't be around to see the arguments) and she also knows that its going to take me (because DBs won't help) years to sort her house out which has stuff crammed in every cupboard, wardrobe, drawer and flat surface that you can pile anything.

Very occasionally she accepts help to clear out a cupboard, but next time we visit it will be full of something else.

I have a friend IRL who has a very similar problem, with no solutions. Does anyone have any suggestions or do I just have to accept that when she dies be that in 2 years or 30 that things will be horrible because she didn't want to sort it out when she was alive. AIBcompletelyU to keep bringing this up in the hope that my nagging will get her to do something?

OP posts:
ManILurveCake · 23/10/2018 17:17

I can totally relate to your situation as I'm in the same situation with my parents.

Mum is 68, Dad is 72 & they are both in very bad health (due to poor lifestyle choices). They are in lots of debt, the house is crammed to the roof with clutter that they refuse to sort & any advice I give goes in one ear & out the other.

I worry for when the inevitable happens as either one will not be able to cope without support & as I am the only family in the area I know everything is going to be left to me to sort out which is a massive worry for me for the future.

My MIL on the other hand is super organised however when my FIL died his house was very cluttered which took weeks to clear & as my BIL lives away it took ages to organise as he wanted input in everything which was understandable but very time consuming given the distance.

Blanchedupetitpois · 23/10/2018 17:18

I understand your concern. It’s pretty selfish of her to knowingly leave you a horrible mess to sort out one day. I don’t think there is anything you can do to make her though. You will just need to mentally prepare yourself for it to be even harder than it has to be when she does die Sad

speakout · 23/10/2018 17:19

Why do you feel the need?

Leave it- you can get a house clearance company in when she pegs it.

You say her will is " not fit for purpose"- again that's her business, not yours.

You need to let this go.

Pinkblanket · 23/10/2018 17:19

She's a grown adult, leave her be.

InDubiousBattle · 23/10/2018 17:20

Also op, her affairs are in order aren't they? She has a will she is content with and is living in her own home as she wishes.

Aquamarine1029 · 23/10/2018 17:21

Seriously, you just need to back off. However she chooses to live is her business. Concern yourself with your own affairs.

Mosaic123 · 23/10/2018 17:22

If she has a house and savings it might be that there are (legal) tax saving measures that can be put into a will.

Try suggesting that she goes to a solicitor or at least speaks to an accountant. Both will suggest a POA with any luck.

Unless she really wants to make a big donation to the Government and, whoever she supports, she won't know which party will be in power.

Bestseller · 23/10/2018 17:23

oh dear, I don't think there's any way to deal with this except by sounding like you're looking after your inheritance.

What is wrong with the 25yo will?

Ultimately, if neither you or your brother are willing or able to sort out the house, you'll have to sell it as it is, which will greatly affect the price, but wo';t affect your mother.

Scatteredthoughtss · 23/10/2018 17:24

YABU. She doesn't have to do this just because you want her too. She has agency and a choice. And you don't seem to be saying that she is actually asking you for anything right now, so back off, it's her choice, not yours.

Bestseller · 23/10/2018 17:26

"Unless she really wants to make a big donation to the Government and, whoever she supports, she won't know which party will be in power."

Actually I'd far rather some of my estate went to tax revenues than to relatives who don't need it, especially if I felt they'd been putting pressure to sort things out for their benefit.

I'd also rather make the correct tax contributions than leave it to a single charity or specific charities.

NormHonal · 23/10/2018 17:27

My DPs are fit and healthy in their early 70s but had to deal with their parents’ disorganised houses and shitstorm wills, so have got things all in order nice and early, and had a good clear out in the process.

I don’t want to think about “when the time comes” but at least we won’t have to worry about any of that, and I’m thankful for it, having seen our neighbour’s never ending house clearance a few years back.

YANBU but I don’t know what you can do about it.

Volant · 23/10/2018 17:28

Pointless to have massive arguments about this, it will only make her dig her heels in. You need to start a campaign of attrition, e.g. leaving around newspaper articles about contested wills, and introducing stories about your friend who has had such problems because her father never did a PoA.

Annandale · 23/10/2018 17:28

Yes I think it's incredibly irresponsible not to plan as best you can for an absolutely certain event. Not having a will should be illegal. Not updating your will or at least trying to futureproof it is daft but happens all the time. I just redid mine in the wake of dh's death and I think it will now 'last' until I die unless something major occurs, but I'll be prepared to revisit again as needed. I find it truly incredible that such a huge proportion of the population who do own something don't have a will, or are happy to contemplate a huge family bust up over the one they have.

Leaving a house full of crap is pants but at least by the sound of it she is maintaining a reasonably safe life and not hoarding to the point the ambulance service couldn't get access. I have seen many cousins having to spend literally weeks sorting out of a parents' house - yes you could just dump the lot but that's also quite difficult.

PoA is slightly trickier - yes I think everyone should do them, but it may be that people like thegreylady feel they trust a doctor to make the decisions for them more than any individual relative they can think of, and are happy to have endless legal delays and difficulties over their financial affairs rather than give relatives slightly easier access - plenty of people have rapacious relatives. That's fair enough.

[shrug]. Being irresponsible and an ostrich isn't a crime. You've raised the issues; that's fine. You have to stop there. Sort your own paperwork out, though.

SpottingTheZebras · 23/10/2018 17:29

Maybe she has sorted out the will and is pretending otherwise because you aren't mentioned and, therefore, the state of her house is of no relevance to you when she dies.

Theyprobablywill · 23/10/2018 17:30

When she's dead just get a house clearance firm in. As she said she isn't going to be around to give a fuck,.

HollowTalk · 23/10/2018 17:31

Didn't her Will just state who she wanted her house/money to be left to? If those people are still alive then they'll still inherit, no matter how old the Will is. If she no longer likes those people, however, then she needs to rewrite or face the fact they will still inherit from her.

crimsonlake · 23/10/2018 17:31

Your mum is 70 for goodness sake and in good health. Leave the poor woman in peace to enjoy her life, she must enjoy your visits with the depressing conversation. Why bring up the Will, I think it is really disrespectful and money grabbing.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 23/10/2018 17:32

I understand your concern but I don't see what else you can do at this point.

Original poster
10yellowbuckets · 23/10/2018 17:33

Thank you...I'm really appreciating all the comments.

Curious, conversations regarding Will were started at the time DH and I sorted ours, although the lines of 'do you not think you should update yours'. PoA has been a more recent thing, brought up as I am doing mine. If DH and I were to be killed tomorrow it would be so much easier for DM to be able to access our bank accounts etc whilst sorting out the DC.

I work in healthcare I know how fragile life can be. I have seen too many people die (both professionally and personally)with nothing in place and leaving families with a huge mess to sort out on top of their trauma.

Yes I could just bin everything on her death, but I know I won't want to that. I'd just rather not have to wade through 500 copies of Cross Stitch to find important family photos that she's put in one magazine for safe keeping.

OP posts:
mimibunz · 23/10/2018 17:34

My dad is the same except he started crying the last time my brother asked him if he had any details (attorney) to provide. He found out from an uncle that he has all the information we would need as the uncle is executor.

AviatorShades · 23/10/2018 17:39

Incapacity can, and does, happen at any time. A fall in the house,broken hip,slip on ice etc.etc....the list goes on..and then, of course there's mental incapacity. Should either or both of them need nursing/residential home fees, will the house need to be sold to fund the costs? And who will administer her estate on her behalf? All stuff for her to think about - or notAngry

amusedbush · 23/10/2018 17:40

My parents are in their mid 50s and have given me a (bloody morbid) spreadsheet detailing absolutely everything from will details and insurance numbers to funeral songs and outfits. It’s never too early to prepare.

DH’s grandparents died within a year of each other (in their 70s) and he is currently elbow-deep in the absolute shitshow left behind. No will, ancient documents stored willy-nilly in a plastic bag since the 1970s and the only other beneficiary NC and overseas.

prettygreywalls · 23/10/2018 17:40

It's difficult and I know where you are coming from , I lost both my parents with nothing in place and a huge mountain of personal stuff plus business stuff , it too several years and I feel like that time was sort of wasted , sifting through stuff to find the key bits that need keeping ie photos can only be done by yourself and I found personally that it gets you well and truly down
Yes I think it's fairer all round to have poa in place and an up to date will.

Singlenotsingle · 23/10/2018 17:41

She's only 70 and you're talking about PoA, and what happens when she dies? I'd be very annoyed and quite hurt if I was her! It's none of your business! Don't piss her off too much, or you might find she doesn't leave you anything!

GnomeDePlume · 23/10/2018 17:42

I 'sold' lasting POA to my DM in two ways:

  1. MiL had recently had to go into a care home quite unexpectedly. Because there was no POA and MiL lacked capacity, application had to be made to the Court of Protection to allow her situation to be managed by her family. This took time and added to the stress of an already stressful situation.
  1. Lasting POA meant that DM knows who will be making decisions on her behalf in the event of her being unable to make those decisions for herself. This could mean decisions about her care or finances.

The first one was a bit of a wake-up - none of us knows what is round the corner. The second one was peace of mind. She knows that her personal affairs cant be easily taken over by someone she hasnt given permission to.