to expect DM, 70, to sort out her affairs

[10yellowbuckets]

Should possibly have put in elderly relatives, but posting here for traffic.

Usually have an excellent relationship with DM. Over the last 2 years or so its become increasingly strained as she refuses to sort out her affairs. She is an extremely fit, active and usually very sensible 70 yo with no health issues. Every time I suggest that she sorts out a PoA, her Will or her large 4 bedroomed house full of shit house full of very important stuff she responds with either ' 'I'm not planning to die any time soon' (which is ironic seeing as her DH died at 50) or 'its like you want me dead'. We've now had several huge arguments over this.

She knows her not-fit-for-purpose 25 year old will is going to cause a family shit storm, but won't change it (she says she won't be around to see the arguments) and she also knows that its going to take me (because DBs won't help) years to sort her house out which has stuff crammed in every cupboard, wardrobe, drawer and flat surface that you can pile anything.

Very occasionally she accepts help to clear out a cupboard, but next time we visit it will be full of something else.

I have a friend IRL who has a very similar problem, with no solutions. Does anyone have any suggestions or do I just have to accept that when she dies be that in 2 years or 30 that things will be horrible because she didn't want to sort it out when she was alive. AIBcompletelyU to keep bringing this up in the hope that my nagging will get her to do something?

The mother of one of my DD's friend's sadly committed suicide last year. She had previously tried to do so, but we called the police and she was found in time.
She had married for the second time a few years previously but the marriage had broken down after a few months and they'd separated. She'd never filed for divorce in the intervening years and had written a will but hadn't changed it after the marriage failed, so everything (the house, her very good pension etc) has gone to her estranged second husband , and her teenage children have been left with next to nothing. They are trying to crowdfund to raise the money needed to take their case to court.

It sounds like she's happy with her affairs just as they are. My mum once said she was leaving everything to battersea dogs home! I don't know if it's true but it's not my concern tbh it's hers!

Sadly some of the possessions are crap. 50 year old Littlewoods catalogues, empty envelopes, moth eaten clothes, what was once nice embroidered table linen put away unused and now water damaged. All stuff which ends up in the bin! All shoved in a garage or loft. Please don't try to convince me that these sorts of things are treasured possessions!

My parents both had dementia and they were hoarders. DF died, followed by DM (suddenly and unexpectedly) a few months later. We'd started the PoA process, but it wasn't quite finished when she died.

They didn't own any property, and their savings were below the threshold at which probate or letters of administration were needed. Their bank were happy to release the funds to my brother and I on presentation of our birth certificates, the death certificates and a form that we'd both signed.

It took 2 weeks of solid graft to clear out their house. I was on first-name terms with the guys at the local tip by the end of it (and they were fantastically helpful - a credit to Milton Keynes council). Once I'd ditched all the crap, and we'd removed those things we wanted to keep, a local charity came and collected all the clothes, household equipment and furniture that they then sold through their recycling outlet.

Some of the stuff we found was unbelievable: Pa's payslips going back to 1959, the appointment card for my driving test in 1975, (this was in 2010, 3 house moves later), all our school reports, 8 (yes EIGHT!) washing up bowls, the collar and tag for the German Shepherd dog who died in 1969, what appeared to be the world's largest collection of tea towels, a Which? guide to contraception, published in 1967 or thereabouts and totally redundant as Ma had a hysterectomy in 1973.

After my initial despair at the scale of the job, and with the help of a few friends who would come up and help for a couple of days at a time, we started to see the funny side of it all.

Her age is immaterial. Everyone should have wills and POA sorted out. It’s not just about dementia but who would look make decisions on your behalf say if you got into an accident.

I’m 36. My DH has POA for health (as well as finance) because he knows exactly what my wishes are if I was to have a massive brain injury. Also he’s a sahp so if I had a stroke or whatever he would need to be able to access everything easily.

You've not said what aspect of the will may "cause a s**t storm", but while you can't force her, I'm afraid I find "I won't be around to hear the arguments" very selfish

Is this really what she wants for her family? And what happens if the house has to be sold for care fees before she passes?

I don't envy you in this and the only thing I can suggest is to leave it for now but watch out for any decline in her mental faculties. If and when that happens she'll probably need more of your help, and maybe that could be used as leverage while she's still able to consent to a POA

She doesn't need to rewrite her will she just needs to add to it if she wants to ensure you get her jewelry.

Of course 70 isn't early to write a will. My exh and I (we were still married at the time) wrote wills when we had small children because we wanted to ensure who would care for them if anything happened to both of us while they were still young, what would happen to our property and money and how they would be provided for.

If you have anything of any value that you want to pass on to someone who need to make sure it's all taken care of in your will.

My mother told me she wanted me to have certain things of hers when she died but because she didn't include them in her will I never saw hide nor hair of them.

Most of my family were dead by the time they reached their 70s. Unless you've got a crystal ball, you've no idea when you'll die and it's not something that only affects old people.

I’m in my 50s and just about to sort out POA for myself. I’m not planning on dying but accidents/strokes etc happen and I want my best interests to be served and not give my DH or children any unnecessary and frankly cruel stress at such a difficult time. It really doesn’t mean they take over all your affairs straight away.

Remind her to do it in 10 years

Unless she is ill, or at risk of being ill, it seems premature for a poa.

Quite the opposite. They need to be sorted before incapacity sets in.

If her estate is worth quite a lot, I hope you have pointed out that unless she has sorted out her will properly, a lot of it will go to the taxman.

Greylady I haven’t arranged for p o a I am 74, dh is 82 and that isn’t a step we feel we need to take yet

And then you won't be capable. It's very selfish thinking. I think everyone should have them in place (you need two) from 50.

LakieLady - I don't have a sister, but if I did you could be describing DMs house. Don't get me wrong, I loved her dearly, but did she really need to keep every Christmas card sent to her since 1948? Or my grandfather's electricity bills from 1956 - 59 when he died in 1963? Or my old pyjamas from when I was ten?

But then again, I found her War time Identity card, which I have kept, because that is something a little unusual. I also found a report that GF had written of his experiences in one of the battles of the Somme. Again worth keeping, especially since he never talked about his war experience. But how much better this would have been if it had been kept neatly in one or two special boxes instead of here there and everywhere.

You may ask how have I kept these items - one nice box labelled box each for DM and GF with the items inside. Not shoved in a drawer with a load of old papers.

*Floottoot,

she has also said on several occasions that she doesn't care what the fall out will be when she does because she won't be around to see it - so, for example, on occasion she's gifted money to 3 of us but not the 4th, and told the 3 of us that it's down to us to make sure that the 4 th sibling gets that money after she's died.*

This a hundred times over. This has been going on for years with me being the child that isn't getting anything, which just seems really unfair especially as when the time comes DBs sure as hell aren't going to be falling over themselves to wipe mums arse help her stay in her own home/keep her out of a nursing home.(And aside from this she really has been the most amazing mother, so keeping her independent as long as possible is very important to me) but I'm guessing thats all part of the extra time I've spent with her which somehow equates to being written out of a will. I really have accepted that in monetary terms Ill be getting nothing, which is why the fact that she refuses to sort anything out, knowing full well that everything will fall to me to sort, really pisses me off.

Apologies, OP - I see you mentioned the will while I was writing

Unless there's a reason for it, I'm wondering if her comments about disinheriting you suggest some loss of mental capacity after all? If I'm wrong, and if she needs care when older, can I ask who she'd expect to call on?

IME grasping relatives aren't often he ones to step up at such times, and if it turns out she expects you to do the caring, you might want to revisit what you'd be willing to do in all the circumstances

*Greylady I haven’t arranged for p o a I am 74, dh is 82 and that isn’t a step we feel we need to take yet

And then you won't be capable. It's very selfish thinking. I think everyone should have them in place (you need two) from 50.*

Agree with this. By the time you need to draw on a POA it's too late to set one up easily. I'm late 50s and set one up last year. I don't get why one wouldn't.

I really have accepted that in monetary terms Ill be getting nothing, which is why the fact that she refuses to sort anything out, knowing full well that everything will fall to me to sort, really pisses me off

I cross posted with you yet again, but surely the point is that nothing's forcing you to be the one who sorts things out?

Okay so it would be a mess, but if the beneficiaries want their money I'm sure they'd motivate themselves somehow

Those going on about how 70 is young nowadays are deluded. Yes lots of people live into their 80s and 90s independently, but equally lots don't. My mil started with her dementia at 74, was in a home by 78. Having POA in place meant that it was much easier to find her a wonderful home and fund it. My own mother was cycling 50 miles twice a week at 70, by 75 she was struggling with copd and was rushed to hospital in an ambulance barely alive twice. Nobody knows what their future holds or when they will die.

A POA doesn't mean you're handing your finances over to your relations. It doesn't come into affect until the person is medically declared unfit to decide. Even then it's not automatic. It just makes it a bit easier for those who will have to pick up the reins in the future.

Asking your loved ones to make a will isn't being grabby. I nagged my dad to do one ten years ago. I told him I didn't care who he left what to, it just needed writing down. Thankfully he saw the sense and did his own will, while also organising a funeral plan and writing down everything else I'd need to know if he was to die. I actually hate talking about things like that with him, but I know I will thank him for it one day. I hope that day is a long way off.

Lakielady LOL. Yep. Thats my mum too. She had flu a couple of months ago and I went to stay for the weekend. I chucked out 6 packets of tacos and mix, 2 of which were over 10 years out of date. Every time I'm in her house I empty her fridge. I'm surprised that it doesn't walk out by itself in between. She seems to think that celery keeps for 6 months.There is a funny side to it, but mostly I just want to cry.

I skimmed the pp & hopped forward to comment that maybe talking with her friends, family or GP might help her adjust her stance.

But now I have read this.
This a hundred times over. This has been going on for years with me being the child that isn't getting anything, which just seems really unfair especially as when the time comes DBs sure as hell aren't going to be falling over themselves to wipe mums arse help her stay in her own home/keep her out of a nursing home.

I am really pissed off. Seriously, if she does not intend to be fair & you are to get nothing, then it looks like she plans to go into a nursing home. This is what she is saying by her actions.

Let her know you have taken her at her words. Step back & wait for it to sink in.

Regarding out of date food I am sure if you look in the cupboard of everyone across the country you will find out of date food. You say it is not strictly about what you will be left in the Will but it clearly is and rankles that your brother and sister in law will benefit and not you. Stop bringing it up, your mother must find it really depressing. May be now is the time is to have a clear out as far as you are concerned, but your mum clearly thinks otherwise. You need to accept that.

Today my brother is trying to offload his cat on one of us. My mum (74) mentioned it first to my sister, then me. She told my soster she was considering taking it. My sister replied with cats can live 20 years! You've not got long enough left! Thankfully my mum thought this was hilarious. I thought it a bit brutal and only mildly amusing.

But i know what you mean. Ive mentioned wills before and my mum is insistent there is no need, as whoever dies first the other gets left everything. However, my dad nearly died this summer and my mum didnt know anything about any financies etc. She also had a go at my dad, while his organs were failing, for leaving sorting out his garage. Also, my mum has four children, but my dad two so this whoever dies first mentality actually results in very different outcomes for the children. She still won't have it that wills are needed.

Also, my dad being ill really cemented the fact ill be the one to do everything.

But theres nothing i can do. Theyre adults. Whoever is left will just have to suffer the consequences.

70 and in good health ?
That’s not old ! I do many long haul holidays with very fit people much older than that
I wouldn’t appreciate being told to sort everything for people who hope to inherit all my worldly goods.

My Dsis and i have spent the last 3 years sorting out business and legal/financial fallout following DFs sudden death and DM sudden stroke 6 months later, as well as moving hoarder 92yo DUnc and aunt. It has been a truly shite time, expensive (legal fees) and draining. Broke up a marriage. Absolutely hated having to rummage through the knicker drawers of hoarders to find important legal papers.
Mine and DHs paperwork is neatly filed with our wills. I will not put my own child through having a mess to deal with when grieving after i pop off!

Quite the opposite. They need to be sorted before incapacity sets in

Beginning to get ill and ending up incapacitated is long road.

My aunt has been ill for a long time and we have only just sorted PoA at the age of 85 because it’s a massive thing to hand over, and it hasn’t been necessary until now.