to expect DM, 70, to sort out her affairs

[10yellowbuckets]

Should possibly have put in elderly relatives, but posting here for traffic.

Usually have an excellent relationship with DM. Over the last 2 years or so its become increasingly strained as she refuses to sort out her affairs. She is an extremely fit, active and usually very sensible 70 yo with no health issues. Every time I suggest that she sorts out a PoA, her Will or her large 4 bedroomed house full of shit house full of very important stuff she responds with either ' 'I'm not planning to die any time soon' (which is ironic seeing as her DH died at 50) or 'its like you want me dead'. We've now had several huge arguments over this.

She knows her not-fit-for-purpose 25 year old will is going to cause a family shit storm, but won't change it (she says she won't be around to see the arguments) and she also knows that its going to take me (because DBs won't help) years to sort her house out which has stuff crammed in every cupboard, wardrobe, drawer and flat surface that you can pile anything.

Very occasionally she accepts help to clear out a cupboard, but next time we visit it will be full of something else.

I have a friend IRL who has a very similar problem, with no solutions. Does anyone have any suggestions or do I just have to accept that when she dies be that in 2 years or 30 that things will be horrible because she didn't want to sort it out when she was alive. AIBcompletelyU to keep bringing this up in the hope that my nagging will get her to do something?

To those saying it's not the OPs business - yes it is!

It is very much her business as she will have to sort it out.

It is irresponsible to not have a functioning will.

This is like Brave New World when they hand out cream cakes to kids on death day. You’ll be worrying whether you’re pneumatic enough next OP.

You want her to get rid of things that are important to her, and be without those things potentially for years or even decades, just to make things easier for you when she dies? Yeah, I can't imagine why that's not going over well. Plus you are basically suggesting her life is over and she's going to die soon. Also not going to go over well.

Oh God parents!
We had to clear out Mum's house as Dad had made no effing plans for her...no effing Will. She still goes on at me 15 years later- 'that lovely teacosy/ massage machine/ passport... I EXPECT YOU THREW THAT OUT!'
I tried to explain that I did not throw out her passport which was so expired she had her hair like Samantha in Bewitched- but no.
I was evil. I threw her THINGS away.
I was so exhausted and my husband was having an affair. I had a nervous breakdown. But she doesn't remember that.

the poa is a good idea but lots of people never need it, or you could need it at 25. If she ends up with dementia you can do court of protection, it's a nuisance but is possible.
Don't worry about the mess, you can do what you can, take out anything you want and others do the same, get anything valuable sold and house clearance people will take the rest
The will is a concern, especially if she hasn't got a good executor. Things can be changed after death (deed of variation) if everyone agrees. I think a bad will is worse than no will, often the rules in intestate are quite sensible. Nothing you can do, and as for who can come to the funeral, who care she won't be able to see. Relax

Can't help laughing at the 'she's only 70' comments. This is the time to do this stuff - while you've still got energy and nous to make all these decisions. 70 isn't old these days but it's sure as shooting not young either. My mum at 83 would find all this stuff extremely difficult - she's not demented or anywhere near it, she just gets really tired and is more easily distracted. Luckily she did most of it a few years ago and the whole family is (possibly slightly oddly) really comfortable talking about funerals, death, embalming, wills and the legal and practical shitshow that results from not talking about it all.

If you have had to sort out the affairs of a deceased parent who didn’t do it properly for themselves, you have my sympathy. Any one who hasn’t, you have a shock coming.

I don’t think you can do much about the hoarding, and you will cause a lot of stress by pressing this point.

A POA is a very sensible move, and worth pursuing. She needs to understand that by doing this she won’t be relinquishing any control, and that it may never need to be used. It’s a backstop position, nothing more.

However, if for any reason she did lose capacity, the alternative (an application by the state to the Court of Protection) is more complicated and costly to her. Also she wouldn’t be able to choose her own attorney if it got to that stage. Of the two options, I’m sure this isn’t the one she would choose.

I’d suggest contacting AGE UK for advice. She might be willing to hear what an independent party has to say.

70 and in good health is too young to be having to think about this!

My Mum gave my brother and I poa only about 2 years ago (when she was 85) but is still managing all of her own affairs and living unassisted in her own home.

A will can be so totally out of date that it's worthless, and can't be executed. We originally wrote ones which said my parents were to look after our infant children if we both died, and not a great deal else. By the time we revised them, my parents had passed away and the children had grown up.

It's also really sad when you know that someone had a desire say to give to a particular charity, or have a particular form of burial, but never wrote it down, and the relatives come in and do something that you know the person would not have wanted. Does it matter when they are dead? Yes, if they wanted to give £10,000 to a favourite charity and it gets nothing.

70 year olds can drop down dead suddenly, or get killed in a road accident. As for sorting out houses - yes you can get house clearers but most of us would want to retrieve one or two sentimental items, but 70 years worth of crap has to be gone through.

Tell me about it. My MIL retired about 20 years ago and we've just discovered that the way my MILs will is written will not make any provision for my husband's vulnerable sibling. My MIL has now only weeks to live and on top of this my poor husband is going through a really stressful time trying to explain to his mother what changes she could make which would make it much easier for his sibling. She is now almost at the stage when she can't focus long enough to understand the changes that need to be made.

Please everyone, make wills earlier than you think and review them regularly.

My parents are hoarders and I share your fears re sorting stuff out. I have decided that when they pass I will simply pay a company to take the lot away. It doesn’t even make me sad anymore. Their hoarding makes me sad and the lives they lead. They can choose to live how they want (as can your mother) but I am not going to sort through their shit when they go. It’s only possessions after all. As for the will, if it causes a shit storm just disengage. It just simply is not worth it. Don’t bring it up with her again.

I feel sorry for your dm, it's her business not yours, leave her alone.

I know what you mean OP. My DP's had 54 years worth of possessions crap in every room of their house. I did announce one day that I would not want to be clearing the loft room out when they were gone so they could darn well help with it whilst they were alive. DH, DF and myself spent a whole day clearing out the attic bedroom and the 2 built in cupboards alongside. We filled our people carrier floor to ceiling 3 times to take stuff to the tip and then took 13 bin bags of clothes (some never worn by my DM) to the charity shop. They were left with some usuable Christmas decorations and one spare kettle (who the hell needs 5 used kettles fgs). The rest of the house I just left until they had both gone. We cleared the house fairly quickly after that - most of it went to the tip with some bits heading for the charity shop and a few trinkets are back here.

DH and I have vowed not to leave our house like this for our DS to sort! We are in the process of discussing new wills (may not be necessary but need to check with a solicitor) and only the other day we were also POA for each other just in case. We are nowhere near 70! PIL's have just re-done their wills and are in the process of appointing their DC's as POA - they are 93 & 91.

Stop feeling overly-responsible.

I'm with GnomeDePlume ... it isn't about who gets stuff, it is about what needs to be done so that the best care possible can be taken of your DM in the event of her becoming unwell/incapacitated. We don't always get a warning. I would be incredulous that anyone in their 70s would not have a valid will and PoA sorted (if it wasn't for the fact that my dad is still long-fingering it because it isn't top of his "to-do" list). The head in the sand approach baffles me.

If there are reasons that her current will is going to cause hurt or upset amongst people she cares about it is fair to point that out to her. I think it is reasonable to expect people to care and consider whether they leave a shit-storm behind them. If she choses not to address that then there's not much you can do though.

Would working through a document like this help? You can approach it from the position of "I want to be able to take care of you as you would like". hospicefoundation.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Think-Ahead-May-2018-Logo-Change-only.pdf (This is an Irish doc but I presume there's a similar one for the UK referencing UK legislation).

70 is a good age to think about PoA and sorting out your affairs. You are still young enough and hopefully energetic enough to do so. The PoA can then sit in a drawer untouched and may never be needed.

If you have had to sort out the affairs of a deceased parent who didn’t do it properly for themselves, you have my sympathy. Any one who hasn’t, you have a shock coming.

Yes, I can only agree.

If she’s not ill or infirm there’s no pressing need to sort out PoA. Her will is none of your business nor are her cupboards.

We used a v helpful booklet to go through everything tactfully and sensitively, emphasising that we wanted to be sure of their wishes.. it took a few hours and was really worthwhile.

I'll link it.

More than anything, get the money sorted, what a PITA when it becomes too much and isn't organised and under control.

Entirely your mothers choice. Stop bullying her.
Of course it’s best to have your will and POA sorted but that’s for her to decide to action. How do you know she hasn’t already updated and left it with a solicitor? How do you know she hasn’t given a friend POA?

70 ffs! You are being totally unreasonable. 80 or 90 maybe. My retirement date is 67, I’m certainly not planning on dying three years later. Suggest you back off.

My mother is 78 and we are still trying to get her to get it together. She needs to do a will and POA and hasn't but sister and we will just sort it all as needed once she's gone if she never does get around to it. She's just bought a brand new car and is so active and well it's crazy, she drives me and Dd places on a regular basis, I'll return that favour once she's no longer driving if I'm still driving by then
The house full of stuff however I'd tell her to start sorting and writing down what she wants to go where, or to clear the house you'll be either getting a skip and binning the lot or having some random clearance company do it all.
Your time is worth something too, and working, kids, and life in general will not stop for months on end while you sift through it all piece by piece. Cruel maybe, but how old does she plan on being, it's easier to do it now while she is fit enough and not when she's 90 and not coping.

www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.homeinstead.ie/docs/default-source/freedownlaods/40-70_actionplan.pdf%3Fsfvrsn%3D0&ved=2ahUKEwiEoe2whJ3eAhWkAMAKHTi6B_EQFjAHegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3w9ZCvnF-sJ2h59xCCPz19.

I feel for you. People should completely forward plan and prepare for the worst. My Dad went from being a (so we thought) healthy and active 75 year old to not recognising us in a matter of weeks following the onset of vascular dementia.

Having to work through Guardianship with the Court of Protection would make anyone get POA sorted. Me and my husband have it, and Wills and comprehensive life insurance. Why would I want to leave my family a shit storm to sort out when they are already having a crap time?

My Mum is a hoarder. I sometimes look around the house and weep. Yes we could do house clearance but as you say. There are probably things stashed away that would be nice to have

I think people have asked, but I didn't see a response. What is wrong with your mother's existing will?

In the event of her death, you remove anything you want to keep. The rest can be donated or handled by house clearance. That is it. Leave your mother to live as she sees fit.

Stop mentioning. She is busy living and doesn't want to think about death.
You might sort out your own will and PoA and let her know you have done so, and get your brothers to do the same. I got my mum to the solicitor with a joint trip- her will, PoA and my will, all in the same office followed by lunch. (you might even negotiate a discount)