To ask what people are afraid of with a People's Vote?

[Bearbehind]

Estimates reckon there were nearly a million people at the Peoples Vote march yesterday so support for it is high.

Why is it such a threat to others though?

If you're so convinced Leaving is the right thing to do for the country, why wouldn't you want that to be endorsed now people have a clearer idea of what is to come?

Or is it that you're worried Leave would now lose as it's been made clear there are no upsides?

In which case why do you want to go ahead with it anyway?

the people of NI voted Remain in the majority. Does that sort of democracy suit you

Which is why I was surprised so few people turned up to the anti-Brexit protest in Belfast on Saturday - barely more than 1,000 people.

The people who bothered to vote are the ones who count. The result is what it was

The result was based on the population being told leaving the EU would be exceptionally easy. Two years later it’s pretty clear it’s far from easy.

To go back to the OP, why are you so against the public clarifying what they want? If the majority still want to leave they will vote for whatever leave deal the government puts in front of us.

@Clavinova - it's a bit more a risk to put your head above the parapet in NI. Peaceful protests have a habit of being treated badly.

I think there should be a vote as the first vote was not only based on massive unknowns etc but also as the "majority" was not a big enough majority to be legally binding - 17m (37% of voting population ) vs 16m (35% of voting population) so the leave vote was not dramatically large enough Imo to finalise such an important position - a final vote with more known information is the only democratic answer

John Redwood on C4 News tonight denied that the Irish Border would be a problem under WTO rules

is he stupid or deluded or just incredibly cynical?

John Redwood is like some other long standing Brexiteers- he is only interested in leaving the EU and can only believe it will be easy. Like my dozy MP he thinks we can go back to the 50s and eveything will be fine.

This is going round on FB at the moment - sums it up well

LEAVER: I want an omelette.

REMAINER: Right. It’s just we haven’t got any eggs.

LEAVER: Yes, we have. There they are. [HE POINTS AT A CAKE]

REMAINER: They’re in the cake.

LEAVER: Yes, get them out of the cake, please.

REMAINER: But we voted in 1974 to put them into a cake.

LEAVER: Yes, but that cake has got icing on it. Nobody said there was going to be icing on it.

REMAINER: Icing is good.

LEAVER: And there are raisins in it. I don’t like raisins. Nobody mentioned raisins. I demand another vote.

DAVID CAMERON ENTERS.

DAVID CAMERON: OK.

DAVID CAMERON SCARPERS.

LEAVER: Right, where’s my omelette?

REMAINER: I told you, the eggs are in the cake.

LEAVER: Well, get them out.

EU: It’s our cake.

JEREMY CORBYN: Yes, get them out now.

REMAINER: I have absolutely no idea how to get them out. Don’t you know how to get them out?

LEAVER: Yes! You just get them out and then you make an omelette.

REMAINER: But how?! Didn’t you give this any thought?

LEAVER: Saboteur! You’re talking eggs down. We could make omelettes before the eggs went into the cake, so there’s no reason why we can’t make them now.

THERESA MAY: It’s OK, I can do it.

REMAINER: How?

THERESA MAY: There was a vote to remove the eggs from the cake, and so the eggs will be removed from the cake.

REMAINER: Yeah, but…

LEAVER: Hang on, if we take the eggs out of the cake, does that mean we don’t have any cake? I didn’t say I didn’t want the cake, just the bits I don’t like.

EU: It’s our cake.

REMAINER: But you can’t take the eggs out of the cake and then still have a cake.

LEAVER: You can. I saw the latest Bake Off and you can definitely make cakes without eggs in them. It’s just that they’re horrible.

REMAINER: Fine. Take the eggs out. See what happens.

LEAVER: It’s not my responsibility to take the eggs out. Get on with it.

REMAINER: Why should I have to come up with some long-winded incredibly difficult chemical process to extract eggs that have bonded at the molecular level to the cake, while somehow still having the cake?

LEAVER: You lost, get over it.

THERESA MAY: By the way, I’ve started the clock on this.

REMAINER: So I assume you have a plan?

THERESA MAY: Actually, back in a bit. Just having another election.

REMAINER: Jeremy, are you going to sort this out?

JEREMY CORBYN: Yes. No. Maybe.

EU: It’s our cake.

LEAVER: Where’s my omelette? I voted for an omelette.

REMAINER: This is ridiculous. This is never going to work. We should have another vote, or at least stop what we’re doing until we know how to get the eggs out of the cake while keeping the bits of the cake that we all like.

LEAVER/MAY/CORBYN: WE HAD A VOTE. STOP SABOTAGING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. EGGSIT MEANS EGGSIT.

REMAINER: Fine, I’m moving to France. The cakes are nicer there.

LEAVER: You can’t. We’ve taken your freedom of movement.

I think it's more like a divorce with both parties arguing over the division of the Marital assets and parental access/maintenance - with lots of people telling the Petitioner "Look, it's really really complex and difficult. You will both be worse off and you have no real reason to leave since you can't say what you want to do as a single person. Go and have a cup of tea and a little rethink, it's not worth all this fuss and expense. You don't have to love your spouse, just stay with them"

Love it @Pickleup .

It is nothing like a divorce between two people, BMW. That particular scenario doesn't involve dragging the whole country along with you and stripping them of their EU citizenship.

In a messy divorce one party is prepared to make a massive economic sacrifice to get away from the bastard. In this case, not everyone wants to do that and actually sees the benefits of staying in. Not even a head/heart divide. More like the spleen and the stomach and a bit of the brain and heart think it's a great idea. Maybe a limb or two. The rest think it's a fucking stupid idea and not the way to fix a problem.

Going back a couple of days *@Harpingon quoted The Independent as saying "The peoples vote March could have been better represented" * and used that as evidence that the attendance on the march was less than expected.

I've searched through The Independent and I can't find any trace of that statement. There is however something on the Letters page with the headline "Despite the numbers, the People's Vote march could have better represented Remainers". www.independent.co.uk/voices/letters/peoples-vote-brexit-march-eu-european-union-protest-remain-leave-second-referendum-a8414541.html

It seems that misrepresentation by Brexiteers is a habit that they find hard to kick.

The letter wasn't even about the same march!

But the EU inserted a clause saying you could take the eggs out of the cake...
So they lied.

But the EU inserted a clause saying you could take the eggs out of the cake

It’s an analogy. It just pointing out that you can’t simply turn the clock back (get our eggs back) and expect to keep the same benefits (still have cake).

There are benefits to being in the EU, if we leave the EU we stop paying for it but we also lose the benefits of being inthe EU - such as a decent economy and jobs.

What are they worried about?
They're worried that the lies and cheating on which the undemocratic protest was based will result in the result being revoked, as most people understand they were hoodwinked. Those who remain entrenched are predominantly those with far right tendencies - a minority.
The politicians are worried about egg on face scenarios. Their worried about their vote count. They’re worried about their jobs.

Farage isn’t worried. It would be perfect for the weasel.

A second vote is less likely to result in ghettoisation, civil unrest and a huge polarisation of wealth than Brexit.

Going back a couple of days @Harpingon quoted The Independent as saying "The peoples vote March could have been better represented" and used that as evidence that the attendance on the march was less than expected.

I've searched through The Independent and I can't find any trace of that statement. There is however something on the Letters page with the headline "Despite the numbers, the People's Vote march could have better represented Remainers".

The letter wasn't even about the same march!

Fishes gosh I'm soooooooo surprised. I wouldn't hold your breath expecting a return and admission of error from them. At best you'll get something twisty about how that wasn't what they meant. Or maybe "It's been typed - Get Over It!"

Jesus, I can’t believe how dumb Brexit is, and I can’t believe our politicians, 70% of whom know it’s dumb, are letting the UK put itself in this situation. Even if we do end up leaving, nobody apart from the Daily Mail knuckledraggers want a hard Brexit. That’s an absolute nonsense. There needs to be an acknowledgement that the vote was really tight, that any version of leave will be damaging, and that the government should seek to minimise it as much as possible. When even Rees-Mogg says the benefits won’t be felt for 50 years and Farage said that we wouldn’t be any better off, you know that it’s going to suck balls.

And now all the Brexit voting farmers are up in arms about their subsidies and lack of migrant workers. Just what we’re they expecting? Gove will not be coming round your farms with hefty cheques and a bus load of Bulgarians.

Where was the opposition leader - St Jeremy - out supporting? Or having a meeting somewhere about Palestine?

Where was the opposition leader - St Jeremy - out supporting? Or having a meeting somewhere about Palestine?
I don't think there's much doubt in the minds of remain supporters that Jeremy does not support 'their' side. His stance will cost Labour a lot of votes IMO. What's your point?

1. The referendum was not legally binding.
2. It was illegal - fraudulent in the eyes of the law as well as carried out on a campaign of Leave lies and misinformation.
3. Some 3 million people were denied a vote who should have been entitled to one.
4. Unlike a general election, we can't just say 'oops, wrong party - let's rejoin' after we leave. This is a lifetime decision. Where is the safety net usually provided by a democratic process?

If, based on all the above, you believe the referendum was truly democratic, and that democracy stopped in June 2016, then I don't think you really believe in or understand democracy at all - just your warped version of it.

There has to be another vote, to right all these wrongs and put to bed for once and for all any misunderstanding that 'there was a democratic vote'. Leavers will get a vote too, and if they win again they will be able to say they won fairly (perhaps). And I will just have to accept that economic suicide and self flagellation is a thing these days.

The only downside would be the return of Nigel Farage, of course. But even that is a price worth paying.

I don't want to leave.

If we did leave, I desperately wish I could move to another EU country, but that's not feasible with my current DH (who is lovely, and a Remainer, but doesn't speak any other languages well and just doesn't fancy the idea of uprooting). I have to admit I occasionally fantasise about what things would have been like if I'd married my early-20s boyfriend from another EU country, and now had an "escape route"...

The original vote was skewed by misleading information on both sides. Everyone talks about the £350 million on the bus, and overspending by the Leave campaign, but actually I think one of the most damaging factors might have been the rumour that the vote was going to be rigged in favour of Remain. A close relative of mine, an older person, was broadly in favour of Remain but actually considered voting Leave as a protest, believing that our votes would be ignored anyway. (I never dared ask what they did in the end.) I also know of Remainers who didn't bother to vote at all for the same reason. There was a very low turn-out in general. I would be very interested to see what the result would have been like if voting have been compulsory!

Personally, if another vote goes the way of Leave, I'm prepared to call it a day - and despair at the silliness of this nation. I'm 100% convinced that life will get worse if we leave. The only glimmer of hope is that we could re-enter the EU at some later stage, and perhaps in a few years the mood of the people will have changed to the extent that there would be a very strong movement to re-enter, and a decisive majority vote, under a PM who is whole-heartedly in favour of the idea and willing to work to deliver it.

Long story short - the reason I marched was because I wanted the government to know how many people feel strongly about this, and because while it's not certain that the proposed People's Vote would get us out of leaving, at the moment it's probably our best hope. Incidentally, there were leavers on the march too - people who want to leave but not under the most recently suggested terms. It was not specifically a pro-EU march, although I think it's fair to say that Remainers, and specifically members of the various "[name of region] for Europe" groups, made up a very high proportion of the total.

@foxtiger there were plenty of 'Remain Now' people at the march too. And I too marched to tell Theresa May that the people are still fucking speaking, if only she'd bloody start listening and remember that there are millions and millions of people she is doing nothing to reassure.

fishes I guessed that to be the case when that poster disappeared without providing a link 😂

It is worrying how Leavers continue to twist things to suit their agenda though.

I’d like another vote. I suspect it will go leave again, because most people in this country can’t be arsed and just want it over with. If that happens then fair dos, you made your bed. I’ll be ok I’ve got money in the bank. It’s the already poor that I feel sorry for.