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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask what people are afraid of with a People's Vote?

832 replies

Bearbehind · 21/10/2018 17:36

Estimates reckon there were nearly a million people at the Peoples Vote march yesterday so support for it is high.

Why is it such a threat to others though?

If you're so convinced Leaving is the right thing to do for the country, why wouldn't you want that to be endorsed now people have a clearer idea of what is to come?

Or is it that you're worried Leave would now lose as it's been made clear there are no upsides?

In which case why do you want to go ahead with it anyway?

OP posts:
mummmy2017 · 22/10/2018 07:44

This vote your asking for, becareful what you wish for.
65 million in UK.
15 million children.
Leaves 50 million to vote
So roughly 1 in 4 people don't vote..
35 million..
18 million are over 55, and 75 percent of bothered to vote..
So. 15 million. Of which 65% voted to go..
So 10 million want to go.. 5 million to stay..
Of the remaining 20 million...

You would need better than a 65% split to remain to win...
How ever you have to accept the leavers know older people are more likely to voted leave, there are 5 million non voting older people but only 2 million teenagers...
The remaining 8 million are can't be bothered...
Your going to have to door knock and engage a lot of don't cares to win...
Plus the EU is coming over as bullying, the silent majority can see this and the English tend to voted against this a lot, and last time the EU were not unmasked to the extent they have been in recent years.
The vote will be faught with this as a strap line for leaving, and it's a far more powerful that you think.
Leave now whole we can or be tied to the EU for ever, it's not a club it's a lifetime of higher budgets and being told what we must do by Brussels.

mummmy2017 · 22/10/2018 07:46

Sorry while.. Not whole.

Satsumaeater · 22/10/2018 08:05

I voted remain but I don't want a second vote because it opens the door for Scotland to have one too, and it's bad enough leaving the EU; I don't want the UK disintegrating too.

The way forward is for a sensible compromise deal which doesn't follow the "we won, get over it, winner takes all|" mentality. It really can't be that hard, but between the DUP and the rabid Brexiteers, it's become so.

Neshoma · 22/10/2018 08:12

As time4chocolate said way up thread, a vote on the deal gives people the chance to vote 'no' to the deal.

But thats just it. Its another referendum. Leavers will vote No regardless of a deal or not.

So whats the point?

mummmy2017 · 22/10/2018 08:17

But the leavers don't sit in parliament.
Our MPs do.
We voted for our government to sever the ties to the EU.
It wasn't a people's march, it was a march of a million people who didn't get the vote going their way and now are complaining about it.
Today's social media encourages the it's not fair attitude, makes younger people think they should have their own way, when life has changed course.
We have never done this before, but it doesn't mean we can't have a stronger UK once we finally leave and the shouting stops and the really work begins.

bellinisurge · 22/10/2018 08:26

"Today's social media encourages the it's not fair attitude"
The "it's not fair" attitude is people refusing to accept the reality of leaving. On NI. On food supply. Little snowflake-y things like that.

AmIRightOrAMeringue · 22/10/2018 08:41

I can see why people say if there was another vote, democracy would be ignored. However I see it like this -

5 people in a house. Money needs spent on it for upkeep and they're not happy about it and wonder whether it would be best to start again elsewhere. Estate agent promises them if they sell they will get something loads better for the same money and no work will be needed. They have a vote. 3 vote move so the other 2 agree to move and they put their house on the market. They start looking. And looking. And looking. They can't decide between them what the priorities for a new house are and even if they could, it doesn't look like they can find a house that's the right condition in the right area, so it's probably going to cost them more to move than to stay and fix their current house.

Turns out the estate agent didn't know what they were talking about, so, knowing what they now know, they agree to have another vote to see whether to stay put or to move to the best alternative house they found.

Or according to some people they should just move to a shit new house that's going to cost them all more money and not be any better than their current house, because that's what they agreed on before they started looking at houses

mummmy2017 · 22/10/2018 09:46

But you handed the house back, agreed to move.
You can't now just decide not to move as you would need to agree a brand new deal with new owner..
And the legal bit said you have to move out, before you can return.

bellinisurge · 22/10/2018 09:50

@mummmy2017 - if you've ever sold a house or bought one you know that until the deal is closed, there is no sale. You don't move out just because you put the board up. You move out because you are happy (or not sufficiently unhappy) with the agreed deal..

Original poster
Bearbehind · 22/10/2018 09:51

And the legal bit said you have to move out, before you can return.

This worries me on 2 levels.

Firstly - no it didn't - we don't have to leave even now.

Secondly - there's still no defence of the actual choice, just the feeling we should plough on because we said we would.

amirights analogy makes it clear how mad this decision is yet Leavers are still insisting we should carry on regardless.

OP posts:
Biker47 · 22/10/2018 10:04

Nearly a million people, now. The estimates of how many people were present are going up by the bus load each minute, did Diane Abbott do the counting?

If there's another vote (with a remain option; even though that won't happen, deal or no deal at best), is it best 2 out of 3 if remain win this one, or best 3 out of 5 if leave win again?

bellinisurge · 22/10/2018 10:08

@Biker47 - I agree that calling it a million just discredits it. That is not what everyone is saying about though. Feel free to dismiss it on the basis of a stupid bit of niche rhetoric.

mummmy2017 · 22/10/2018 10:09

But the EU accepted our notice to leave.
They have said we can Rejoin..
But to rejoin you have to leave...

tiredgirly · 22/10/2018 10:11

To answer the Ops original question
What I fear most about a second referendum , is that it would mark the death of democracy in this country

twofingerstoEverything · 22/10/2018 11:32

Leaves 50 million to vote
So roughly 1 in 4 people don't vote
35 million

Interesting maths there, mummy.

15 million children
More like 18 million...

The rest of your figures make no sense at all.

twofingerstoEverything · 22/10/2018 11:38

More alternative facts from mummy

But the EU accepted our notice to leave. They have said we can Rejoin.. But to rejoin you have to leave...

not necessarily

BakedBeans47 · 22/10/2018 11:41

No, they just need to stop the damned thing.

This. The whole sorry mess is just a salutary lesson in why you can’t trust the public to make such an important decision.

mummmy2017 · 22/10/2018 12:15

So even less people around to vote than I though from the figures, just have been a few years old...
So you lose 3 more million of the younger generation.
47 million who could vote.

35 million did... Vote..
So yes 1 in 4 didn't vote..

mummmy2017 · 22/10/2018 12:17

Twofingers at this late stage... You have no time to stop us leaving..
Dreams and wishes don't become reality.

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 22/10/2018 12:32

The whole sorry mess is just a salutary lesson in why you can’t trust the public to make such an important decision

This.

The country vote to call a boat Boaty McBoatFace. The powers that be step in and decide the public can’t be trusted on such an important matter.
The public vote to crash the economy and potentially restart a civil war in Northern Ireland and that’s fine. Hmm

mummmy2017 · 22/10/2018 12:34

Go look what democracy is...
Your experiencing it.

Isitsixoclockalready · 22/10/2018 12:48

I think that if people who voted leave were honest then they would say that their real fear of a second referendum would be that there was enough of a shift that people would vote to cancel brexit. The argument over it being bad for democracy is reasonable but I don't think that is the main issue.

Such a pity that the original referendum didn't set the bar for leaving at say 60% and I think that we would clearly see less division now. I realise that a leave voter would say why should we have had to reach 60% but remember we were making a momentous decision that has and will continue to have a profound effect socially but also likely economically. The Referendum was far too binary and failed to take into account the complicated nature of our relationship with the EU.

bellinisurge · 22/10/2018 12:50

@mummmy2017 - the people of NI voted Remain in the majority. Does that sort of democracy suit you?

mummmy2017 · 22/10/2018 12:50

Hindsight is such a lovely thing..

mummmy2017 · 22/10/2018 12:52

They are part of the UK.
The people who bothered to vote are the ones who count.
The result is what it was.
Again like a school report could have achieved more if tried harder.
The result stands.