To ask what people are afraid of with a People's Vote?

[Bearbehind]

Estimates reckon there were nearly a million people at the Peoples Vote march yesterday so support for it is high.

Why is it such a threat to others though?

If you're so convinced Leaving is the right thing to do for the country, why wouldn't you want that to be endorsed now people have a clearer idea of what is to come?

Or is it that you're worried Leave would now lose as it's been made clear there are no upsides?

In which case why do you want to go ahead with it anyway?

You are not that special.

And that's just shows why this is such a mess.

Why would you think anyone wants to feel 'special'?

It's not about 'feelings'

The reality is you are not that secure in your convictions once you remove emotions.

you can't assume non voters in referendum support status quo or indeed anything; you go one way or the other if you say only 17 million out of 44 million voters voted leave , it is also true only 16 million out of 44 million cared enough to want to stay in EU; the 11 million approx that did not vote can't be assumed to care one way or the other

all votes in the UK are 50% of those who voted plus 1 in this case it was 50% plus about 900,000 not a huge difference but wide enough to be beyond any reasonable doubt or miscounts etc most general elections turn on far fewer than 900,000 votes

I am not saying anything about Brexit one way or the other but you just can't keep re running votes by saying people who didn't vote the way you want them to are stupid, didn't get it etc or you alienate them even further

But.. the referendum result was NOT legally binding, it was advisory only.

And so would a second one be, are you suggesting we enact one and forget about the other - you’d be mad to think that would be ok to do.

The reality is you are not that secure in your convictions once you remove emotions

Oh, I am absolutely certain on my convictions otherwise I would not have spent two years posting (with supporting links) on these threads.

So if there was a 2nd referendum and 'Remain' won, wouldn't eavers demand a third referndum, and on what basis could you argue against that

If there's no deal I will blame the Brexiteers for the loss of our JIT manufacturing industry and approx 1000000 jobs, and the breaking of the GFA and a return to violence in NI.

Project Fear my arse. Project Reality more like. We are so fucked.

Oh, I am absolutely certain on my convictions otherwise I would not have spent two years posting (with supporting links) on these threads.

Sorry time but that's simply not true. I've not seen a single Leaver, you included, post anything which explains why leaving the EU is worth paying the price we will have to pay.

I don't think it's about keeping on rerunning votes until we get the 'right' answer.

It's simply to build a consensus.

There's absolutely no mandate right now for leaving with no deal - that's just TM's mantra.

I'm Irish, so not directly involved, other than potentially suffering from the fallout.

At the time of the original referendum there were people interviewed who had voted leave as a protest but didn't expect it to carry as "they lived in a strong remain area". It seemed like they didn't understand the voting process and thought it was like a general election where the result for each electoral area counted separately, similar to the electoral college system in the USA.

I'm just wondering were there many voters like that? I know we often get protest votes in minor referenda where people want to register their disapproval of the government. Seems like a pretty major issue to use to protest though.

I marched too, but not because I love the EU or because I think I'm special. I marched because I am so worried about companies leaving or going out of business - taking jobs with them; I'm worried about the tax take plummeting and with it, what's left of our public services.

TBH I wasn't entirely comfortable with all the blue-and-yellow costumes, and was pleased to see some union flags. I wasn't marching because I love the EU especially - I do appreciate what it represents in terms of co-operation and peace, and getting everyone invested in, working in, the same economy so they don't want or need to fight. But it certainly isn't better or more important than my own country.

If we were (for the sake of argument) currently outside the EU, and joining would cause us the kind of damage and disruption that leaving will (especially if there is no deal), then no way would I want to join the EU. It is because of the disruption and damage caused by leaving that I want a people's vote, not because I think that everyone who voted leave was a fool. They weren't. There were - of course!- a lot of good reasons for not being in the EU, as well as a lot of good reasons for belonging. What I am trying to say is it wasn't "obvious", at least it wasn't to me.

What is becoming obvious though is that it is the process of leaving - the forced change and disruption - that is going to hurt us so badly - and for such a long time. Even some Brexiteers have admitted it might take 50 years to recover. The unhappiest and unluckiest people in the country certainly should not be being made to endure things getting worse for 50 years before they can get better. None of us should.

Our economy is entwined with the EU, like a big tree with its roots wrapped into every country. And we are not carefully loosening some and replacing them in well-prepared soil in third countries, we are just ripping the whole bloody thing up, and hacking off the bits that won't come loose. Yeah, maybe that field over there would have been a better place to grow our economy, maybe not. But this is a mature tree not a pot plant. If you yank it about at random, it's going to suffer VERY badly.

That's what I don't want to happen, that's why I marched.

What people are afraid of I think is : - having their Brexit over turned, for those who wanted this mess

• for those who didn't, that the Brexiters, if overturned, will throw the sulky stroppy fit they've accused remainers of having and rioting
• having to spend yet more time being divided over this issue
• having to spend yet more time trying to think about it at all. Most of us want to move on with our lives.
• that the vote will be rigged anyway, much as the first Brexit one was, much as the referendum on alternative voting practices was
• that we'll just be in as much of a mess after such a vote as we are in now.

It's useless of course, but I so wish the referendum had never happened, and I think David Cameron should be shot for forcing this mess on us. Actually most of the political set for the last 30 years should be shot for the way they set this up - blaming the EU for everything that's gone wrong in Britain while doing everything possible to increase divisive inequality amongst us.

I voted leave. I think the people's vote is a good idea as now we have a clearer view of brexit. I would probably now vote remain

No one knows what "the peoples vote" is... No one seems to be able to agree on what it would be... Estimates on the March were 700 thousand, it was demographically a southern March and the involvement of momentum meant not many people knew what they were marching for (topple the government? etc.?) A lot of the people on the March who were interviewed were not able to vote for many reasons I. e not resident in the country. Not the successful protest it was meant to be.

Not the successful protest it was meant to be.

PMSL 😂

You kept telling yourself that if it suits.

That's exactly the attitude that prompted this thread - what are you so scared of?

A people’s vote is what we do all the time. It is democracy. Ergo, still democratic to have another vote because you are asking the people what they want.

How can a vote of the entire country be undemocratic?

Why would this one be a people's vote but the last one wasn't?

Why would this one be a people's vote but the last one wasn't?

Because the logistics and implications of actually leaving weren't covered last time.

They need to be agreed now.

greater London largely voted remain so it is hardly surprising a march in London attracted people who would prefer to remain it's an echo chamber.

A march in some of the cities or west midlands that were strongly leave I guess would have been different

OK......... Would you just enlighten me on the exact wording of the "people's vote"? So that I know what I'm being asked to vote for : ) thank you...

And yes it wasn't as big or successful as it was predicted to be. Quire frankly I've seen more people in a Glastonbury ariel photo : )

the referendum was actually more democratic because it didn't matter if you lived in a strong leave or strong remain area your vote counted just the same. Unlike a general election where in some places being strong conservative/ labour it seems your vote doesn't matter or your vote matters a lot more than someone else's as you live in a tight marginal, in a general election a difference of 900000 votes would normally give you a working majority in house of commons

No wording no has been defined, it's the principle that's being discussed.

I'm not really in favour of another vote tbh but we need to find some way of healing this divide.

The very fact Leavers are so scared of allowing any kind of expression of option speak volumes to me.

Now it's much clearer what the real choices are.

Do we?!

And yes it wasn't as big or successful as it was predicted to be

How do you work that out?

The organisers predicted 100,000 and it's been estimated somewhere north of 600,000, up to 1,000,000.

Of course it doesn't look like Glastonbury - people were lining the streets for well over a mile, they would all fit into 1 photo.

It astounds me the lengths people are going to to play this down - again, why would you do that if you're so convinced Brexit is the right choice.

^^ Wouldn't fit into 1 photo

The referendum was dishonest. People did not know what they were voting for. Anytime the remain campaign brought up issues, they were branded as Project Fear. There was never a proper debate. Obviously a proper debate would on,y have had one outcome.