To ask what people are afraid of with a People's Vote?

[Bearbehind]

Estimates reckon there were nearly a million people at the Peoples Vote march yesterday so support for it is high.

Why is it such a threat to others though?

If you're so convinced Leaving is the right thing to do for the country, why wouldn't you want that to be endorsed now people have a clearer idea of what is to come?

Or is it that you're worried Leave would now lose as it's been made clear there are no upsides?

In which case why do you want to go ahead with it anyway?

I wouldn’t disagree - but that’s not really the point at hand is it?

Of course it is.

You have voted for decisions to be made by a bunch of fuckwits rather than democratically agreed by 27 countries.

Industry should and will pick up... As it will become profitable once more.

It's a known fact that the car manufacturers are closing their factories after Brexit to 'see how it goes'. If we crash out of the customs union and the single market they will leave. That will destroy industry.

Financial markets will flourish, no way will bankers lose out.

As financial institutions need a base within the single market most of them are actively seeking to move to either Paris or Frankfurt. Bankers at the top won't lose out, sure, but The City will, and as finance is about 8% of national GDP so do we.

It's a lose lose situation.

I hadn't noticed the current government running the country well.
This, with knobs on.

As we said change, we want things to change, and if we get out by God all things will change, nothing is ever all bad. And we have had bad times and good times before.. Are you saying that there will never be good times again ever.

Bearbehind

I don’t need an example - the basic principle at hand is who rules me - them or us. And increasingly, they do.

You also run roughshod over the cultural identity of the British nation state. We don’t want dozens of other nations dictating domestic policy via some remote commission in Brussels.

But neither aspects concerns you so we are apples and pears in debating it.

To add to our cheer, Daily Telegraph embraces Project Fear! Well the travel editor does:
www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/iata-brexit-flight-disruption/

I don’t need an example - the basic principle at hand is who rules me - them or us. And increasingly, they do.
How fucking ridiculous.

So you are basically saying 'I can't think of a single example of a decision that I disagree with but I think we should send the whole country to hell in a hand cart in order to say we make our own decisionsm even though the decisions we'd actually make wouldn't be any different'

When the UK leaves 'industry' is going to have to work doubly hard to come up with products that are better and more profitably made than elsewhere, and you need to consider you are up against the Hi Tech of Germany, Japan and others at one end and 'sweatshops' of Bangladesh, etc AND be hit by extra red tape and tariffs on both imported materials and exported goods (say 10 % going each way on average).
With the great brains of 10degrees on the case........Oh dear!!

Daily Telegraph embraces Project Fear!
those leftie fuckers, selling the country down the river for a silver dollar (or something)...

Bearbehind

Correct. It’s about us being an independent nation state. How well the eu does or doesn’t run us (with the sovereignty we haven’t lost...) is irrelevant

mummmy if you ever want to gain any intergrity on these threads you would describe how you think industry will thrive outside the EU.

I'm not asking for a detailed projection, simply what made you say that.

You know (or at least should know) the car industry relies on just in time deliveries and that any kind of friction at the borders will result in it simply not being viable for those industries to thrive here, to the extent they will start to Leave.

What indusrties do you think will thrive?

Correct. It’s about us being an independent nation state. How well the eu does or doesn’t run us (with the sovereignty we haven’t lost...) is irrelevant

There's literally no point in discussing that kind of fuckwittery.

^^ intergrity should be credibility

10 do you actually know what sovereignty is?

The uk has a raft of issues.
Brexit has been sold as a solution.
It isnt, it will only add to those issues.

We need to stop wasting time on brexit and start working on the issues.

The people's vote is pitched as an attempt to confirm the mandate for whatever is the outcome of the current farce.

Actually it should be a vote scheduled asap with the options
a) carry on with this shitshow and live with what we get
b) reset, pull a50, establish a commission, enquiry, whatever, outside the south, to enumerate the issues, identify causes and propose a 'new deal' strategy to fix them

I wouldn’t disagree - but that’s not really the point at hand is it?

I don't agree either - we are going to make ourselves wholly dependent on our own Government, who at the moment, do not appear to be acting in the interests of the country. Only the other day on MP was lamenting that if they didn't get Brexit right, they would be out of Government - not that the country would be f*cked for 50 years. At least Grease-Smug has been honest enough to admit that we won't know until then, but meanwhile he's made mighty sure that his business interests are in an EU state.

I would be very happy to leave the EU but I don’t think we will.

The EU are not negotiating in my opinion so they are stalling stalling. This will go on for years, with nothing resolved, neither in or out.

A people’s vote doesn’t scare me, I think it would be wrong to have one. The questions would not be deal or no deal, there would be a third question on there, to remain. This would be wrong for two reasons, a) we have already voted on the in or out question and b) the third question would split the out vote thereby remainers getting their reversal by default.
Wrong just wrong.

As we said change, we want things to change, and if we get out by God all things will change, nothing is ever all bad. And we have had bad times and good times before.. Are you saying that there will never be good times again ever.

I will give you an example from the 1930s - one set of grandparents not rich but doing nicely, GF a professional man, own house (1930s semi owned outright) and they ran a car. DF's parents, GF a skilled man with a trade - mother widowed young and the family plunged into poverty. Very similar in DH's family - GF skilled with a trade but his industry collapsed and poverty ensued. Which family would you have liked to live in - the ones which didn't know where their next meal was coming from, or if they got sick would they be able to afford the doctor, or the comfortable one?

From the tone of your remarks, I would suggest that you would prefer to be the comfortable one. We all would. Are you one who is worried sick now about whether a supply of vital medication will get through?

No one is saying that there won't be good times ever, but many of us are predicting that there will be considerable hardship, which has been self inflicted. I could easily see this totally incompetent Government crashing out by accident.

Industry. OK.
3d printing means parts can be printed, used to build electrical items, not only are we good at design, we can even build the printers.
Waste plastic can be sorted and recycled into things. We have so much of the stuff.
There were houses being made that looked like brick. From this waste.
We can make cars it was just cheaper to buy the bits. But it is not impossible to step up the production of easier to make parts.
Electric bikes.
There are so many things we could make if there was a profit in it.
If people can see a profit it will happen.
Gaps in markets are where people make fortunes...

OMFG

So we're going to be expert skip rats!

I think I preferred it when there was no detail if that's the best you've got.

That is truly pitiful.

Mummmy, out of curiosity what do you do for a living?

Mother and self employed, I make things and sell them to shops.
Bear you asked it was one example of something that needs doing is easy to start up and would benefit the UK.
Had I said something bigger you would still have responded in the same vein...

And we see the leading lights of the Leave campaign investing their money in 3d printing, or setting up waste sorting plants, or buying or building a factory to make electric bikes?

Or do we see them running to take their money to Dublin (Grease - Smug), Germany or France (Redwood), Dyson (building electric cars in Singapore)? When any one of those or their friends begins to put their money were their mouths are then I might have a little more patience with Brexit.

Bearbehind

An analogy might help.

One day you wake up to find that your next door neighbours run your monthly budget. They say where you shop, where you go on holiday and what cars you can drive.

Are you telling me that - irrespective of how well or badly they ran your affairs - you wouldn’t resent that pretty quickly?

As to the poster who asked me if I knew what sovereignty is - yes I do, but I wonder if you do.

Not at all mummmy.

If you'd suggested things that could actually sustain a country I'd have listened.

As it is you've suggested a few very niche products that would barely sustain a village let alone a country.

Let me guess, you probably make decorative objects that people don't really need?