To ask what people are afraid of with a People's Vote?

[Bearbehind]

Estimates reckon there were nearly a million people at the Peoples Vote march yesterday so support for it is high.

Why is it such a threat to others though?

If you're so convinced Leaving is the right thing to do for the country, why wouldn't you want that to be endorsed now people have a clearer idea of what is to come?

Or is it that you're worried Leave would now lose as it's been made clear there are no upsides?

In which case why do you want to go ahead with it anyway?

You should be apologising for being prepared to sell out your country for the prospect of a handful of silver.

Here’s the problem, many of ‘us’ think that’s exactly what many of ‘you’ have done.

Talk to trees

Why?

Leavers arguably have two main motives - sovereignty and immigration. What have either got to do with money?

And a petition about the availability of medicine after Brexit. Even Leavers should sign this with full confidence that Brexit will cause no problems. Please share.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228631?fbclid=IwAR20mVxfIh589DckN53vrCi7j-8WsvHqWV9pvAPZp_hNZV4gy049WygKzLk

Leavers arguably have two main motives - sovereignty and immigration

Those aren't arguments they are words. You may as well say 'curtains'.

We have not lost sovereignty the U.K. parliament is still sovereign.

We are bound by international treaties - but that will still be the case if we leave the EU. We will have to abide by the rules of the WTO and yet have no say in these rules. NATO and the ECHR will still make decisions that will have ramifications in the U.K.

The sovereignty argument is nonsense so you are selling the country into economic disaster for a concept many leavers simply fail to understand.

{Leavers arguably have two main motives - sovereignty and immigration.}
The UK as you well know has always been 'Sovereign' and Immigration was a deliberate 'cock up' caused by the 'Sovereign' government.
Neither have anything to do with the EU.

10

Isn’t the point of Liam Fox to secure lucrative new trade deals? Isn’t the lowering of tariffs meant to reduce prices in the UK? Isn’t ‘not sending vast amounts to the EU’ meant to allow for more spending at home. All of these reasons, and more, are about money. Unfortunately it is now becoming apparent that there is likely to be (significantly) less money, not more, after Brexit.

And then there’s immigration - but let’s not go there now as I have to go to work.

And sovereignty

I often wonder if Leavers ever think to themselves 'hang on, I give those headline examples but I can't actually think of any specifics'

So today we've had:-

• Increased industry
• increased farming
• more FTA's

Yet not a single person can give a single example of which industry, or which crop or which country.

A little more critical thinking is required here - even if it's only in your own head.

Likely... You said it not me.
Likely means it could happen but it might not...
You know no more than us. Stop pretending.
I wanted things to Change..

Big change was what I voted for and what I will get...

Belittle all you like - if you think 17 million turned out to vote leave over non issues then you don’t really understand much at all.

if you think 17 million turned out to vote leave over non issues

Well, you'd certainly get that impression reading Leavers' posts. Have you read some of the nonsense on here?

Yes I absolutely think people came out and voted for non issues they didn't really understand and all the discussions on MN confirm that view. They used words like 'sovereignty' and 'boarders' with no real understanding.

The point I think you are making 10 is why did people feel the need to registers a protest vote and howl with rage?

I will absolutely engage with that point. Austerity. An electoral system that effectively disenfranchises many of the electorate. Exploitative employers who use cheap labour to make a profit. Capitalism with no restraint causing poverty.

People wanted change but the change they voted for will be more of the same. More poverty, more exploitation, more of the political elite playing games with their lives.

Captain: As it is likely that the left wing would be ripped from the fuselage during today’s flight, we have decided to cancel.

Passenger: Ridiculous! He only said likely. And anyway I like change. I want it and I will get it.

Off to work 👋

I would be absolutely astounded if none of those 17 million required imported medication. However, it apparently won't be their fault if they don't get it - it will be the EU's, the 'Remoaners', Theresa May's and on. Why they don't hold Johnson, Davis, Fox and all the other sorry crowd to task is completely beyond me.
I hope one day that those people will be held to task.

this bloke voted leave to get back to being a British empire

I'm sure he didn't think that was a non-issue.

Moose

By interpreting Brexit as a mere protest vote you are doing a disservice to legitimate concerns over sovereignty and immigration.

You may think both issues were unfounded but I can find 17 million people to disagree with you.

As it is likely that the left wing would be ripped from the fuselage during today’s flight, we have decided to cancel.

I was on a plane where the landing gear got partially stuck. Fire engines waiting for us, will bells going and blue lights flashing. It was not fun but the pilot did land us safely. If I was told again, don't worry the take off and journey will be OK, and there's a 90% chance we will land safely, after that experience I would say, 'No thanks'. It's almost certainly put DH off flying except when there is no alternative form of transport available.

{ More poverty, more exploitation, more of the political elite playing games with their lives.}
And the good news is that being 'free' of the EU, parliament can change laws at will with no regard to anyone else so the austerity can be harder, greater exploitation, slackening of regulations for the UK market, no help from the EU regeneration fund to help typically Northern and south Western areas. I suppose they can cut benefits to only those who work which might help the fruit and veg picking shortages.

10 you, apparently, can find 17 million people who disagree with me about sovereignty being a non issue but you can't find one who can put forward a convincing argument.

You say sovereignty is an issue - I put forward a counter argument - you say yes it is an issue but you totally and utterly fail to say why it is an issue.

Please, as one of the 17 million, tell me why you feel sovereignty is an issue?

I'll start with a point to make is easier for you. Parliament remains sovereign in the U.K. some power is ceded to external bodies but that is due to globalisation and the international nature of the world we live in.

Even when we leave the EU there will be minor issues relating to sovereignty in relation to the WTO, NATO and ECHR.

The minuscule amount of sovereignty will will regain will immediately be ceded to other international bodies. If we BINO we will still have to obey EU rules and laws but with no say therefore we will be in a worse situation.

Any one of the 17 million ready to respond to that?

{this bloke voted leave to get back to being a British empire}
Well his wish is coming true. The 'Empire' has got rather smaller that he may be thinking of, now consisting of only the UK and Northern Ireland.

So, 10degrees, you know 17 million who did not understand that the UK always was Sovereign and that immigration was controllable.
Maybe a few of them should have checked before putting a cross on the voting form. Same these are FACTS and not unicorns.

Leclerc

By Jove you have it! Your post of 1852 describes some of the freedoms of sovereignty.

The fact you don’t trust the uk to use the powers (that I’m told aren’t ceded to the eu???) to benefit its citizens speaks much to your absolute bias that eu = good governance.

It baffles (and saddens) me that you think those on foreign soil can run the country better than we can ourselves.

It baffles (and saddens) me that you think those on foreign soil can run the country better than we can ourselves.

10 can you name even 1 example of a decision taken in Bussels that the UK wouldn't have done?

I hadn't noticed the current government running the country well.

Bearbehind

You are asking me to simultaneously use hindsight and a crystal ball. So no, funnily enough, I can’t.

Does that mean you win ‘Internet brexit’?

Peregrina

I wouldn’t disagree - but that’s not really the point at hand is it?

No 10 I'm asking you to cite a decision that was taken in Brussels previously that you disagree with.

No crystal ball required.

Surely you have at least one if you feel so strongly that we shouldn't be influenced at all by the EU?