To ask what people are afraid of with a People's Vote?

[Bearbehind]

Estimates reckon there were nearly a million people at the Peoples Vote march yesterday so support for it is high.

Why is it such a threat to others though?

If you're so convinced Leaving is the right thing to do for the country, why wouldn't you want that to be endorsed now people have a clearer idea of what is to come?

Or is it that you're worried Leave would now lose as it's been made clear there are no upsides?

In which case why do you want to go ahead with it anyway?

The thing is BoneyBack because some posters insult people ALL leavers refuse to engage. There have been insults and goady behaviour on this thread from individuals who are leavers but remainers continue to post politely.

The point I have made below about democracy in the EU I have made innumerable times. I repeat it because that posters might not have read it.

If Brexit supporters have clever answers and interesting and articulate points why do they not post them? If you are so convinced of your argument then present it and if posters are rude that reflects upon them not you.

Also, if you make a point that is merely vacuous rhetoric you will be called on it. If you make a point relating to 'sovereignty' you will be told it is wrong and you sound thick. That is in reference to the point and is not a personal insult as an adult involved in grown up debates you must be be to see the difference.

Somebody I know was beaten up in the street yesterday for wearing a pro EU tee-shirt. Exeter. It was a group of men, don't know how many, he was on his own, he's ok, just bruises around his face

I got beat up in the street as a teenager by a group of grown men when visiting a country within the EU because of my race.

Short empty sentence!

Is a totally winning argument!

Has anyone analysed the opinions of the huge number of non-voters? Do they regret not voting? Would they vote in a second referendum?

I have repeated a factual point that the EU at the recent referendum vote was a different entity to the European Communities the UK joined in 1972.

I admit I made the grave error of putting an OPINION on how a newspaper leader by a famously europhile politician would have read to my parents at the time or me a few years later. (And no we didn't have internet access to a copy or summary of the treaty of Rome back then so voters were truly information poor..in my opinion, please note!)

The referendum in Scotland gave those seeking a different vision for Scotland a chance to change the direction of their country. Whatever my opinion on the likely practical and economic problems it would cause I can't argue that it's wrong of Yes voters to have their own point of view and desires.

I wish prettybird all the best but their posts, (admittedly interpreted by me as) saying I can't read..how is that a normal civil response?)

Now I'm sure there have been sarcastic posts from other posters but I'm addressing what seems to have been a withering blast at me.

Anyhow it succeeded as I'm off in my withered state of disrepair to post on a more innocuous subject.

Wishing you all peace.x

Just to state my position - I'm an ardent remainer, went on the People's March, even appeared in a video for The People's Vote. However, what worries me about the idea of a second referendum is that what if the turnout is low? The turnout first time round was 72% - most general elections only get a turnout of 60-65%. What if there's another vote, this time 52 / 48 split the other way, but only 40% of people voted? Is that more or less representative of the population's opinion?

I guess what I'm saying is, although I definitely do want a second referendum, I'm also worried that it could split the country even more than it is already. We need to heal the rift - and that just isn't happening.

the EU at the recent referendum vote was a different entity to the European Communities the UK joined in 1972

Well, yes. Pretty much everything about the human world is different to what it was in 1972.

However, the Community the UK joined in the 1970s had made it clear that their aim was indeed to change into a different entity, in ways that were set out in black and white in a variety of media, and that the People then voted on.

Are you saying that the People didn't know what they voted for in 1975?

@OatsBeansBarley I actually think people were better informed in the past. Many voters seriously engaged with the more complex literature delivered to them - not all obviously. I think the internet has significantly reduced the level of political debate.

Any study of the 1975 referendum shows clearly that the 'stay' side was talking about closer union with the EU. It wasn't hidden or misinterpreted the information was there.

Your point about the EU being a different entity now - yes it is. All the decisions reached to that end have been negotiated, debated and voted on in Parliament. It hasn't been sneaked through. This is how U.K. democracy works, referenda are the exception.

Mousse mousse I know where you are coming from on the information situation. Yes the internet also throws up a lot of distracting flak. I also think the ability to form a broad view, not getting sidetracked on wonk level detail, might be helpful in coming to decisions that use the so called wisdom of crowds..

Food for thought.

There was as I remember a sense among some of joining mainstream European history and closing the door on being an empire and colony facing nation on the fringes.

But words matter and it was referred to in everyday terms as the Common Market. I make no claims as to there being a single view!

All my opinion..

Elements song I tried to be clearer that I am expressing my own opinion, and recalling the opinions discussed around me over the years. If you find me tedious or incomprehensible can't you ignore? I'm just a parent chatting on an internet site fgs. I'm not flipping Henry Kissinger.

More reliable estimates of the attendance at Saturday's march (i.e. not from the organisers) put it at around 350,000- 400,000, and a lot of them seemed to be either children or foreigners anyway - people with no vote and thus no say in the matter. A million marched to try to stop the Iraq war in 2003 and the government ignored them - why should this be any different?

The fact remains we had a vote and Leave won, and we knew what we were voting for. Don't whine on about the £350m because we are still paying that to Brussels, and the government that leaving would mean out of the EU, the Single Market (though of course we will still trade will EU members) and the Customs Union.

There will be no second referendum because one is not needed. The government has its instructions, to get us out of the EU, and it must carry them out.

We are not Ireland to be told to keep voting until we get it right.

Bearbehind
boney, give it up.

I am answering a question so no, I won't "give it up", that posters don't like being reminded of what went on is very telling.

The only name calling and nastiness round here right now comes from the Leavers.

Not true, its now from some on both sides.

I don't understand why you constantly post saying Remainers are always rude to Leavers.

I have never said that remainers are always rude to leavers, I have posted a reason why most leavers do not engage with remainers

More reliable estimates of the attendance at Saturday's march (i.e. not from the organisers) put it at around 350,000- 400,000

More reliable estimates by whom?

The more hard leave supporters try to discredit the march, the more they show signs of being worried about it.

*BoneyBackJefferson you have been very clear that you think remainers have been rude. Leavers have also been rude.

In the face of that rudeness remainers have continued to post reasons and explanations as to why they have made the decisions they have.

Please could a leaver, any leaver, respond with 3 reasons why leaving the EU is a good thing. Facts would be helpful.

boney you're not answering questions on the actual subject of the thread though. You are just being a self declared referee who is very biased to one side.

I don't think such posts are necessary.

There are Leavers here, some are rude, others aren't but none of them are engaging in the actual discussion we are trying to have to any extent beyond hyperbole.

As mousse said, if each Leaver could give examples of positives we have to look forward to, and which we'll actually notice, that would be great.

More reliable estimates of the attendance at Saturday's march (i.e. not from the organisers) put it at around 350,000- 400,000, and a lot of them seemed to be either children or foreigners anyway - people with no vote and thus no say in the matter.

It's actually quite funny how low some are stopping to discredit the march. It reeks of desperation.

Mainly children and foreigners - PMSL.

How did they spot the foreigners anyway - just the non-white ones?

How do you know they don't have a vote?

They could be more British than you!

Political stadility and not having to pay into rescue countries in the EU. They have budgets for that.
We will stop paying into that budget.
Industry should and will pick up... As it will become profitable once more.
Farmers will once again grow things on a Larger scale.
We can take advantage of gluts in food markets, rather than just storing over production as EU do... Butter mountain.
Financial markets will flourish, no way will bankers lose out.
House prices should go down... Yes good thing if you can't afford to buy yet.

PMSL at Whollyfather turning up with the usual unsubstantiated drivel.

Just on those people saying about how well the march was attended....if you weren't there, then you are trusting photos and reports from newspapers....that very well trusted source that have no investment in portraying it a particular way at all and are as believable as most politicians...no?

I was at the march - we stood for 2 hours on Hyde Park Corner because it was so busy it couldn't physically move.

Political stability!

What? For who? Where?

If EU countries do erupt with some kind of right wing resurgence we will not be 'stable' because we are not part of the EU. They are still our closet neighbour. Staying out of internal European arguments was proved to be a ludicrous stance for both the U.K. and the USA during the twentieth century.

The only difference is we will not be able to influence and moderate any trouble that arises. Leaving the EU will increase any chances of political instability both in the U.K. and in the EU.

mummmy thank you for your comments.

Could you elaborate on the basis for them though?

For example, what will farmers grow on a larger scale and why couldn't they have done that whilst in the EU?

Which industries will pick up and why couldn't they have done that whilst in the EU?

UK never had influence. Or David would have got something before this started.