To ask what people are afraid of with a People's Vote?

[Bearbehind]

Estimates reckon there were nearly a million people at the Peoples Vote march yesterday so support for it is high.

Why is it such a threat to others though?

If you're so convinced Leaving is the right thing to do for the country, why wouldn't you want that to be endorsed now people have a clearer idea of what is to come?

Or is it that you're worried Leave would now lose as it's been made clear there are no upsides?

In which case why do you want to go ahead with it anyway?

DoctorTwo

Just because some leavers are proving to be distasteful in their opinions doesn't make what has gone on with regard to remainers attitudes any less true.

Weird goalpost shifting going on

It was made clear in the 1975 referendum that the goal all along was going to be more than a trading bloc. And it was the Will of the People, who of course knew what they voted for, in great detail and with complete prescience to remain in this organisation whose goal all along was to be more than a trading bloc.

But having been shown evidence that the People were told what the goal was when they voted in 1975, in response to 10’s own post referencing 1975, we need to move the goalposts and talk about the 1990s instead.

Why, if the People had known in 1975 that the aim was more than a trading bloc, were they caught by surprise when the developments of the 1990s happened?

Perhaps the People were hoping it wouldn’t have taken so long ??

Oh, and a bit more on what the People knew they were voting for in 1975:
twitter.com/resipiscence/status/1054636139477417985?s=21

Sarcasm is never pretty prettybird.

It's not sarcasm. It is genuinely bemusement that when there is explicit evidence that had just been posted that it had been crystal clear that the UK had joined the European Community knowing that it was more than just an economic community, you still try to claim the opposite.

It wasn't even as if you had to click through to another site (like the link that TheElementsSong posts to the leaflet that was produced for the 1975 Referendum). It was right there in the photo

Or can you only read facts that agree with you? (and I'd love to see some of the facts that you do agree with: as many have asked, frequently, on these and other threads, of Leave voters, what are the specific laws you didn't like, and the specific benefits you expect to see.)

So please, where is the evidence that we knew back in 1975, that it was a simple economic community and would never be more than that? The evidence to the contrary has already been posted.

Brexit was a political question about the future direction of the country.

No it wasn't. It was Cameron not knowing what to do with the Eurosceptics in his party, and thinking that his essay crisis style of management would enable him to pull something out of the bag.

Something like 700,000 of us marched on Saturday. A few years ago there were fuel tax protests, which nearly brought the country to a standstill. At the end of Thatcher's time, there were poll tax riots. I myself can't recall any time when people have marched against the EU. Farage for all his noise and bluster doesn't manage to get the crowds out to support his cause.

Interestingly I note that all the UKIP MEPs managed to turn out for a meeting where their future pension settlement with the EU was discussed, even though they usually can't be bothered. Funny that.

Just because some leavers are proving to be distasteful in their opinions doesn't make what has gone on with regard to remainers attitudes any less true.

Here's the thing @BoneyBackJefferson, all I see is Remainers asking why Leavers voted the way they did. Then those said leavers just post "you lost, get over it".

So what you're saying is that when our manufacturing industry says it's going offshore and we point out that hundreds of thousands of jobs are going to go, and our economy is going to tank is akin to abuse. Do you not think your own argument is facile? Even Grease Smug admits it will take 50 years for our economy to recover. Which is a bit rich for the 'man' who switched his corporate holdings to Ireland so he can still deal with a borderless Europe. How patriotic of him.

And the wheels on the (350m a week for the NHS) bus go round and round... Why? Why? Why?

In 1993 the U.K. House of Commons passed a bill on closer European Union (the Maastricht Treaty).
Repeat: the U.K. voted on and passed the legislation. So yes, there was a democratic vote in Parliament in 1993 for closer union. That’s how our democracy works. Anyone who can’t remember it can simply look it up.

As has been said many, many times the major EU treaties have been negotiated, debated and voted on by Parliament.

This is how the sovereign U.K. parliament works.

I voted leave and would probably vote remain with a heavy heart if there was another vote because it all seems to be such a mess. What I am afraid of is that if the EU think we might have another referendum then they won’t give an inch and will leave us with even less choice.

I think also that people are angry with the EU for being so harsh and that it could be a repeat of the leave vote anyway. I voted leave because I think the EU is undemocratic and controlling and I still think this but I see their grip is so strong that we can’t escape it without big issues that we can’t seem to resolve. If we don’t leave I think that the federal ideal will go further and be more depressing but I don’t think we have much choice. Obviously I don’t think much of Britain either if I would vote remain but there we are.

All you keep saying is we can't leave.
That is not what the EU constitution says.
Your saying we voted the wrong way... But you mean you don't like the way the vote went.
We do have assets as a country, we will survive, it's unfair of you too all say your way or no way.
Why am I not panicking. I know that I won't starve, no I am not rich or even comfortably doing OK, but I do know that something major needed to happen, I voted to make the UK a better place in the long run, to force our government to alter things, not to stop immigration, sorry but as I helped with the count on the night. I knew I had a hand in that change..

But the MEPs don’t have much power compared to the commission.

Harsh - well the negotiations don’t seem to be going very well do they. Obviously you think the EU are being sensible - I think they are being difficult. We won’t know until the last minute by which time we probably won’t be leaving.

All you keep saying is we can't leave

No we can leave, it’s just that doing so will massively damage our economy and cost thousands of jobs.

I don't understand why the people who make such a fuss about only having signed up for a "trading bloc" in the 1975 referendum arent willing to support the UK at least remaining part of the EEA/EFTA, which is essentially a trading bloc.

I don't understand why the people who make such a fuss about only having signed up for a "trading bloc" in the 1975 referendum arent willing to support the UK at least remaining part of the EEA/EFTA, which is essentially a trading bloc.

No one knows who would support this. May, pandering to the ERG, decided that it wasn't an acceptable option for her. Farage was quite happy with this option, remember, until he realised it included FoM and then he changed his tune.

@SerenadeOfTheSchoolRun power within the EU is balanced. It can seem to someone used to the very unbalanced system in the U.K. that MEPs have little power but they just have power that is controlled.

The U.K. system of government is the anomaly not the EU. Power in the EU is spread between the parliament and the Council of Ministers. The Commission has similar powers to most civil services although it also has the power to propose legislation. Again, this seems very unusual to people who assume the U.K. system of government is normal but it really isn't.

A system of government where one body has the vast majority of the power - the U.K. - with few (no?) checks and balances is unusual and poorly structured.

Basically, in terms of democratic function it is the U.K. that is out of step not the EU.

Somebody I know was beaten up in the street yesterday for wearing a pro EU tee-shirt. Exeter. It was a group of men, don't know how many, he was on his own, he's ok, just bruises around his face.

It's all overblown hysteria.

DoctorTwo

So what you're saying is...

I haven't said anything of the sort I have given you and others a reason why most sensible and serious posters won't respond to name calling and general nastiness.

I haven't said that putting forward valid concerns is abuse those that are saying so are twisting what I have written to suit themselves.

boney, give it up.

The only name calling and nastiness round here right now comes from the Leavers.

I don't understand why you constantly post saying Remainers are always rude to Leavers.

Most Remainers just want a sensible conversation about this subject.

That involves interactions that reach beyond soundbites and rhetoric.

If Leavers are posting on here there should be no reason why that can't happen

It is more than a little disingenuous to suggest that the reason they don't, despite posting on these threads, is because of name calling etc.

It's very clear it's for no other reason than they have no answers beyond those soundbites.