To ask what people are afraid of with a People's Vote?

[Bearbehind]

Estimates reckon there were nearly a million people at the Peoples Vote march yesterday so support for it is high.

Why is it such a threat to others though?

If you're so convinced Leaving is the right thing to do for the country, why wouldn't you want that to be endorsed now people have a clearer idea of what is to come?

Or is it that you're worried Leave would now lose as it's been made clear there are no upsides?

In which case why do you want to go ahead with it anyway?

The Leavers on this thread are just demonstrating my point perfectly.

They are quite happy being gobby and sarcastic or spouting out sound bites but when you push them further they can’t actually elaborate on any of their comments.

Which is exactly why they don’t want their decision to be challenged by another vote.

I’ve just read that mrs8

It’s unbelievable!

I’m sure it will be shrugged off by Leavers but really, at what point is the penny going to drop?

I am massively pro Remain but I think the People's Vote idea is futile. It seems like route one to no deal, as people would reject any deal that was offered. That's if the DUP, right wing Conservatives and Labour don't scupper any divorce deal agreed first.

The best thing for the country now is to get the divorce deal agreed and through parliament. The worst thing is to leave in March with no divorce deal agreed, so no transition period.

A Norway style arrangement would be fucking amazing at this point, but is unlikely.

If you look at things from a purely economic point of view, leaving the EU is not a sensible option without some form of trade agreement in place. One that gives the UK access to the European market without changes in Tariffs. A hard Brexit will serve no-one in the short or long term, because the short term damage will take far too long to recover from.

We are not equipped logistically to overcome all of this, and those that speak about the speed of getting free trade deals with other countries quickly on the leave side have no idea how it works, as has already been evidenced by the fact that Fox and Davis prophesy's on the ease of doing deals with Europe has been shown to completely misunderstand the position. Naddine Dorries has consistency proved she doesn't know what she is talking about on any level and I feel sorry for the constituency that has her as an MP.

I'm going to ignore the fact that the leave campaign has broken the law in getting a leave result, or that no-one can point to a single positive economic factor from Brexit.

I think what is more telling is that the rhetoric has changed from the leave side to pin the blame for the sh*how we are currently in, to being the fault of the people who don't want to leave.

Lets also have a quick look at those who were heading leave from the Government side, David Davis and Boris Johnson have both refused to publish a leave plan (despite promising to do so) as they cant actually put one that works. JRM has moved his hedge fund to Ireland to stay in the EU citing in its documentation because of uncertainty about Brexit. Nigel Lawson has taken French Citizenship, Nigel Farage has a £75K EU pension, and his children have obtained German Citizenship (His ex wife being German). John Redwood has advised companies not to invest in this country because of the decline in markets following Brexit. James Dyson has just signed a deal to manufacture his electric cars in Singapore, as Singapore has just signed a Free trade deal with the EU so he will have no tariffs to pay whereas he will in a post Brexit Britain.

All government statics show we will be worse off as a country, but hey who needs experts.

I would be happy to be wrong, but remain to be convinced that leaving rather than reforming the EU is the way to do it. As for a second referendum, on this I agree with Keir Starmer, there should be a peoples vote on the deal with an option to remain.

Because the remainers who didn't get what they wanted were so vicious and nasty (remember threads on here with people saying they wouldn't talk anymore to friends and family who'd dared to disagree with them) that I can't be bothered to listen to them again. The country voted to leave and that's that. Having another vote might mean another vote after that. When would it end.

"Remainers are all meanies. I voted to leave and even if it is dreadful for the majority of people I must get what I want."
Which is pretty much what I'm reading now.

But no deal seems the only possibility now

It really doesn't. There will be a deal, but it will be rather a fudge, and kicking cans down the line. UK, Irish and EU negotiators are very close in their views, much more so than the talking heads in the media would have you believe. The real question is whether parliament will accept it. I hope they can be forced into accepting the deal offered. Every bit of scary no deal information released now it aimed at frightening them into accepting the deal (though a lot of it is likely). Having another referendum just disrupts this process and is unhelpful.

Excellent post bobbywash

I think this is far too important to leave to the public to decide and the majority don’t understand or, worse, can’t be bothered and are sick of hearing about it.

It reminds me of Tony Blair in 2003. He gave the commitment “with you whatever” to Bush and wouldn’t go back on his word.

Politicians don’t want to lose face with the electorate so won’t back down on Brexit. The only way out is another people’s vote.

I think the consequences of Brexit will be worse, for the UK, than 2003. The consequences of the poverty that some will sink to will be dire.

Though I don't like the Tories, I don't want a general election either (which is surely to be the result of parliament rejecting a deal), as their party brought this about and they have to deal with it.

" The country voted to leave and that's that. "

Why do we not have a Ship called Boaty-Mcboat-face?

The people voted on that as well.

But no deal seems the only possibility now

I actually think the opposite - I think the NAO reports etc are being issued now to give TM the ammunition needed to say no deal is going to destroy the country.

That is assuming she behaves like a rational human being which, as we've all seen, is not a given, particularly if she thinks her pride has been dented - in which case - God help us.

I’m worried that another vote would be the same result as leavers are stubborn and will stick to their original choice on principle!

Because the remainers who didn't get what they wanted were so vicious and nasty (remember threads on here with people saying they wouldn't talk anymore to friends and family who'd dared to disagree with them) that I can't be bothered to listen to them again

What is the personal price you are willing to pay to have your vote enacted?

Will you be happy to be £100 a month worse off?

What about £200 or £300?

What if you lose your job as a result of Brexit?

At what point does it cease to become worth it?

nicebitofquiche it's interesting you remember people being " vicious and nasty" I remember people being upset because they were losing their jobs. When a member of your family votes in a way that means you will lose your job you will get upset with them.

I remember posters being upset because they were in relationships with EU nationals or they lived abroad and family members voted in a way that could seriously disrupt their lives and relationships.

When you vote in a way that will have serious long term consequences for other people they will get upset. Rather obviously.

I think it is rather naive to expect people to carry on being nice when you have voted in a way that will have a seriously negative impact. Unless you didn't realise.

In relation to voting again - democracy is an ongoing process it isn't a one off decision. If we did decide to stay in the EU I would expect the conversation to continue.

Moussemoose

There is being upset and there is being nasty, many remainers on here were just plain nasty. The vitriol from then and the continuing nastiness is why there has been no debate on here.

People do get nasty when they lose their job.
People do get nasty when their medication is threatened.
People do get nasty when their future plans to study and live abroad are threatened.
People do get nasty when their relationship is under threat.
People do get nasty when racists (some not all) are given encouragement.
People do get nasty when others don't realise the seriousness and the long term implications.

It would be relatively straightforward to leave the EU and become members of the EEA/EFTA. Due to the unique political situation in Ireland, we do need to be in the Customs Union. Logistically we would need to stay in for some transition time anyway as the necessary customs infrastructure doesn't yet exist.

This way we would be out of the general governance structures of the EU and so regain this "sovereignty" some people think we have lost. We would still have to follow EU trading regulations of course, but many leavers, including on this thread, say they just want to be part of a trading bloc, which is what EFTA is. I'm a passionate remainer, but I could live with this solution. Although I think it's inferior to what we currently have, at least we wouldn't lose the economic benefits of our membership.Given the closeness of the vote, this sort of compromise option should have been obvious.

It would then be possible, if the will was there, to slowly build up the necessary infrastructure for our own customs checks etc, investigate at length if there are any developing possibilities that avoid a hard border in Ireland etc, so that we could gradually disentangle ourselves from the EEA at some future point.

The trouble is, May and her government made the truly awful decision to immediately paint a load of unachievable red lines and, unbelievably, to start the clock by triggering article 50 before she or anyone else had the faintest idea of what to do. The sort of technical notices that are being distributed by the government now should have been done before Article 50 was triggered. They should have taken the time to investigate carefully all the future possible relationships and deciding which one to negotiate for before article 50 was triggered.

May painted herself into a corner with all her ridiculous posturing. Realistically, the only options available to us are staying in the SM/CU for a long transition or crashing out with no deal. No deal will not "be fine". It will send the economy into a tailspin that will take decades to recover from and nobody with children or grandchildren should even consider this a sane move.

Please, any Remainers on here - do you still think Brexit is a good idea, and why?

Moussemoose

Yes they do, and you have made my point, but people/posters do not have to engage with people that are being nasty, and pretty much every brexiter stepped away from the keyboard and didn't engage.

I doubt you'll find any Remainers who think Brexit is a good idea obligations! 😆