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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask what people are afraid of with a People's Vote?

832 replies

Bearbehind · 21/10/2018 17:36

Estimates reckon there were nearly a million people at the Peoples Vote march yesterday so support for it is high.

Why is it such a threat to others though?

If you're so convinced Leaving is the right thing to do for the country, why wouldn't you want that to be endorsed now people have a clearer idea of what is to come?

Or is it that you're worried Leave would now lose as it's been made clear there are no upsides?

In which case why do you want to go ahead with it anyway?

OP posts:
LittleLionMansMummy · 23/10/2018 14:29

WTF - imagine not matinee

Grin Betraying your liberal elite roots there @Bearbehind. You'll be accused of sipping lattes from avocados any minute by a Quitling.

Annandale · 23/10/2018 14:30

I didn't march. Two referendums took place in one government. Both were an absolute shitshow and a mockery of the complexity of all political issues in developed countries. I don't want referendums to become a usual part of our constitution. I think they are a dictator's tool, but they look like a PR stunt. Cameron, our PR prime minister, thought he could control them. One he did, one he didn't. The consequences for the uk, the EU and the world are huge. I can't forgive him. He appears to have contempt for constitutional law. So does Theresa May and her 'Here's my government made with the DUP' without bothering to go to the Palace. It was a very British coup.

In practical terms i do now think there is some hope of staggering towards some sort of deal which will at least mean some mattresses will be piled up below the cliff before we go off the edge. I think another referendum can only disrupt that process and make no deal more likely. Hence i didn't march.

RhiWrites · 23/10/2018 14:30

Leavers are scared that there will be a second referendum and they will lose.

Honestly, leave would lose. Last time the right mobilised and the left didn’t. And it’s the far right who want us to leave much more than the far left.

I just don’t know what to hope for any more. I think Brexit will be a disaster and the one silver lining is it will hurt the Tories for a geberation. But when we get the next general election Labour will inherit this mess and it will damage them too.

And if we had a second referendum or decided that the cost of leaving is too high there will be race riots. Because UKIP and friends have been empowered and they fear losing that power. The racial hatred Brexit has stirred up is not going anywhere.

This country is deeply divided. Leaver are delusional and stuck in the past. They want to go because they’re idiots, racists or believed a pack of lies. Or (these ones I can sympathise with) are in the post industrial north and have been so roundly ignored by successive governments they are desperate for any kind of change.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 23/10/2018 14:37

I completely understand people have different views but asking what they are afraid of is a perfectly valid question.

If those people have such strong convinctions then they shouldn't feel threatened if they are challenged.

Quite the opposite - they should relish the opportunity to prove beyond all doubt their views are those of the majority.

OP posts:
TeenagersDoMyHeadIn · 23/10/2018 14:49

Why should they, exactly?

TeenagersDoMyHeadIn · 23/10/2018 15:35

My friend's grandmother is 96 and a retired doctor. She voted leave because she lived through the Second World War and her parents lived through the First World War. The family suffered various tragedies and deaths in action. She has seen history repeat itself and thinks we should have no ties with the belligerent nations of those wars. She thinks we have short memories and history could repeat itself again. She doesn't need to live her life like it's an episode of Question Time.

She does not relish the opportunity to prove beyond doubt that her views of the majority, and is quite at ease with her own opinion. If that's OK with you.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 23/10/2018 15:40

Why should they, exactly?

Because without doing so there is no majority support for Hard Brexit.

There's not even a majority for a Soft Brexit.

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 23/10/2018 15:46

@TeenagersDoMyHeadIn - my late mother was 86 and voted Remain for the same reasons.

10degreestostarboard · 23/10/2018 16:08

the 'peoples vote' ballot questions quoted above would split the leave vote (as you well know) and would be utterly unacceptable politically. As would remain being an option on the paper.

if you are going to rerun the 2016 vote (and to the remain advantage) at least be honest about it. You don't want a vote on the deal at all; that is just a cover so we get the 'right' result this time.

Intellectual dishonesty from the remainer elite...

bellinisurge · 23/10/2018 16:20

I'll be honest. I don't want another vote. We are stuck with this shitshow and Leavers should own it.

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 23/10/2018 16:21

the 'peoples vote' ballot questions quoted above would split the leave vote

But you’ve been telling me folks knew what they voted for. Surely all Leavers want the same thing, why would they be split?

twofingerstoEverything · 23/10/2018 16:23

Of course an option to remain should be included if there was a people's vote. A lot of sensible people will have been watching the government's 'negotiations' over the past two years, reading the impact statements and technical notices, seeing the NHS haemorrhaging EU staff, etc., and will be wondering if it's really wise to leave. It would not be logical to only offer a choice between a worse deal than we currently have or a no-deal.
Brexit extremists and disaster capitalists, of course, are another matter.

10degreestostarboard · 23/10/2018 16:24

I could split the remain vote using similar tactics.

Plus what does remain mean any more anyway? I don't think we would keep our rebate now.

mummmy2017 · 23/10/2018 16:25

Why don't I want a second vote?
Last time was bad enough, remain could not put up enough good arguments to vote remain, so they decided to forecast the doom and gloom, that might happen, it was supposed to happen straight after we voted instead what happened was they had to admit the forecasts were wrong.
While I never bothered to canvas for leave last time, if you push this vote on us we will go out and march for democracy to be upheld, and how the EU is a club you can't leave. How we will be tied for ever..
You think your march in London is the bees knees, well you won't have seen any think like the numbers who would march over a 2nd referendum, leaves are quiet right now because for all your shouting, even the PM says no to your vote...

Ta1kinpeace · 23/10/2018 16:28

I could split the remain vote using similar tactics.
What two options would you put to split the remain vote?

Options surely are
(a) Hard Brexit, tear up the 172 deals
(b) EEA Brexit
(c) Remain in the EU

No other variants truly exist

mummmy2017 · 23/10/2018 16:32

1 rejoin EU.
2 stop Brexit.
3 leave.

twofingerstoEverything · 23/10/2018 16:34

Oh dear, mummy. You can't 'rejoin' something you haven't left Grin

Ta1kinpeace · 23/10/2018 16:36

mummmy
Option 1 is not possible as we have not left yet.

Your option 3 - is that EEA or WTO as they are rather different beasts (and the whole point of the March)

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 23/10/2018 16:37

10degrees

I’m still baffled as to why you think a leave vote would be split. Previously you said folks knew what they voted for, so they must have all voted for one thing.

ethelfleda · 23/10/2018 16:41

Would leavers want another vote if the deal struck meant that we were practically still part of the EU- in all but name? If they thought the deal was ‘too soft’?
Genuine question.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 23/10/2018 16:43

- agree with the deal on offer
- no deal
- neither of the above (Remain)

So remainers don't just want a neverendum they also want a rigged neverendum!

theOtherPamAyres · 23/10/2018 16:45

The main fear is that Referendums and elections are unpredictable.

What happens if the second referendum comes up with exactly the same result?
What happens if it's close: say, 51% remain and 49% for leave?

dapplegrey · 23/10/2018 16:56

Its not like TM got a landslide with her Pro Brexit line
and Corbyn did not win with his pro Brexit line .....

Neither did the Libdems do very well and they were the only party who promised to ignore the referendum result and stay in the EU.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 23/10/2018 17:02

I've said before, I'm not even massively in favour of another vote but I do want a way of building a consensus and I can't think of any other way that can happen.

I truly believe there is probably less than 10% of the population who understand the consequences of Hard Brexit and still want to pursue it.

And of those, probably half can afford to ride it out anyway and the other half mistakenly think things are so bad they can't get any worse.

That's based on only 26% voting Leave and not all of them wanting the same thing even before the impact assessments proved what the consequences will be.

OP posts:
Maidsrus · 23/10/2018 17:12

If there is another vote it will have to say

Remain

Or

Leave

And, if you voted leave....

TM deal

Or

No deal

blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/06/11/what-would-a-serious-brexit-referendum-look-like/

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