To not buy ds1 a games console for Christmas

[caitlinohara]

Ds1 will be nearly 12 at christmas but we are still holding out on this. My reason being - I do not want to live in a family where the kids are glued to computer games and I do not trust them to limit themselves to a sensible amount of game time (learned from experience of having a Wii). Ds1 thinks I am BU and has just gone and slammed a door about it. Apparently EVERYONE else in the world has Fortnite. It has got to the point now where he is saying he can't have friends round because there is 'nothing to do that they will like'. To clarify: we have a drum kit, a pool table and a garden to play in so I don't buy this at all, I think he is being spoilt. He has a tablet and a mobile phone but they have screen limits on them. I know he is never going to stop asking. AIBU.

ProfessorMoody I love reading research on gaming! Can you show me yours (assuming it’s not behind a paywall!)?

twosoups1972 it’s a fair point... but I am willing to bet that most people/parents wouldn’t bat an eye if reading about children coming back from school and being nose deep in a book for 4 hours, or practising their trumpet. I don’t see why gaming is different? You’re absolutely right about sport and exercise, but as the nights close in I can’t imagine many kids coming home and then going for a night jog to get their day’s exercise! As for weekends, for sure, turf them out of the house so they can go climb some trees and trespass on railways, that’s where the parenting part of the equation comes in, but again - stories are few and far between about parents pulling their hair out: ‘All my kid does is paint! It’s their only hobby. They’d do it all day if I didn’t make them stop to eat and go play some Call of Duty.’ It just seems a weird kind of moral panic, no? I’m by no means disagreeing that these things need monitoring by the way, but anything can be an unproductive time sink if you let it. Moderation seems a good way to go. And confiscation for slammed doors and histrionics!

florafawna are you related to my brother-in-law? That is an awesome/groan-worthy pun that he’d be delighted with!

Yes good points hingle But I think doing anything to excess isn't always a good thing.

My middle dd was, and still is, a real bookworm. The sort of child who would walk along the pavement reading. We'd take her to parks and playgrounds and she would sit and read a book. It sounds wonderful but there was a downside - she was not getting enough exercise and was very unfit. We have rectified this over the years and she now has found a sport she likes. It's a rule in our house that everyone has to do at least one physical activity outside of school - school PE a couple of times a week isn't enough.

I just feel that gaming has more of an addictive nature than other hobbies.

Hahaha, come on Puzzledandpissedoff, the website is called techaddiction - it’s not making any bones about having a dog in this fight! Some of the stats also appear to signify... nothing? 41% of gamers use it to escape the world? I’m amazed it’s not 99%! Of course it’s escapism, just like Harry Potter books, movies, cosplay. Doesn’t make it a cause for concern. My favourite bit was that many addicts (which I couldn’t find where it said what counted as addiction) had disciplinarian parents - good for thought! Tiger mums beware, Fortnite is gonna getcha!

twosoups that is an awesome rule - and often it’s about finding the right physical activity, because God knows if I had to do running to keep fit I’d be crying.

I can’t speak with intelligence to whether or not it is more addictive, but you’re probably right - lots of the stuff coming out about Facebook shares no doubt similar techniques to engage players for just one more go, just five more minutes. You certainly don’t get lootboxes in Booker Prize novels!

Twosoups - I'm doing a PhD in Education at the moment and gaming/tech for children is my specialist subject. I was wondering why you'd make claims that you can't back up, but it's fine as I can see now that you can't

Hingle, I won't point you to anything of mine directly as it's very outing, but if you look at recent research in the UK, you'll be sure to find some

Going against the tide here but I think if your gut feeling is not to get one then don't.
My eldest is 11 and does not have a phone and is probably the only kid her age she knows who doesn't but that has not made me rush out and get one. There are various reasons as to why she hasn't which I am not prepared to post on here about. But it is in her best interests.
Yes she moans and whinges about it and yes i sometimes feel like giving in but I know it is not the right thing right now for her.

An alternative would be get it as a whole family gift with time restrictions on. And have it in the lounge only.

Oh and yes, some games are absolutely designed to be addictive. Fortnite is one of them, however, they should be limited and doing most things to excess can be detrimental.

At 12 your older (obsessive) son is old enough for a conversation about "if we get a console" and to discuss ground rules before there's even one in the house. He's old enough for you to sit down with him and explain your concerns and for you to come up with a management plan together, be it a limit of time per day on the system, no system until after homework etc etc etc.

You can stop play. Get him to suggest sanctions or consequences for if he doesn't follow the rules you've both agreed to.... confiscate the system/controllers. Turn off the WiFi etc?

professor you can look up for yourself the Sunday Times magazine article which discusses the negative impact of gaming on relationships.

I've tried - can't find it.

the website is called techaddiction - it’s not making any bones about having a dog in this fight!

That's very true and I'm the first to accept bias exists, but there were still some quite interesting links to other research done on the subject ... though like all research it might be worth knowing who funded that too!!

On a slight tangent, I'm no psychologist but does anyone know how this "designed to be addictive" thing actually works? I get that folk who have addictive personalities in the first place can get drawn in, but designed to do it ... ?

Puzzled, that article has selected tiny pieces of research papers for what they want to try and show, not provided many real statistics, not provided any critique whatsoever and is therefore incredibly unreliable.

Also, some of the statements are obvious. Of course people play games to escape. Same as reading a book.

The bit about girls preferring platform games is utter bollocks too. Most of the female gamers I play with prefer Cod, Battlefield, horror games etc.

And absolutely, things are specifically designed to be addictive. Look up Feedback Loops. Facebook and Instagram have been designed to be addictive too.

I admit I've never heard of Feedback Loops, but then it's not my field ... am off to have a google right now

They're quite scary things!!

@ProfessorMoody no one on here is depriving their children from anything 😂 op says her son has an iPad

The bit about girls preferring platform games is utter bollocks too. Most of the female gamers I play with prefer Cod, Battlefield, horror games etc.

Careful Mad-Eye! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is ‘Never get involved in a land war in Asia’, but only slightly well known is this: the plural of anecdote is not data!

@therealbatman don't let the truth get in the way of a good, modern, deprivation story.

Eh?

I just don't get why this subject turns into such an arguement, there is literally no right or wrong here. Some kids are a nightmare on consoles, my friends DS is very addicted to it but she parents him well, sets boundaries when necessary (ie he has to do homework and chores first) , he does loads of sport too so is out and about also but some days when he is doing nothing he can play as much as he fancies which I can't see is a huge issue.

Mine have been on half term for 2 days, I have been working from home so haven't made any specific plans and they haven't even turned any of the consoles on yet. They will do plenty of gaming over the holidays I expect but they decided to visit their grandparents yesterday and watched some films with them, did some sports stuff last night then went for a walk today. All their choice. I do think this is partly because they can't ever remember not having a console to play on, they love it but it's not this massive deal in their life.

I find it very hard to believe that with normal use it causes the issues people try and state it does. Yes excessive use will cause marital problems, but then so will excessive drinking, hobbies, phone use, shagging other people and all sorts of other things. That is more about the person than the gaming IMO. My XH was excessive on gaming on the PC, to the extent we'd invite people round and he'd sit on the PC in front of them, it had nothing to do with gaming and more to do with the fact he was a twat.

My boys are both musical, sporty, one is academic, one is arty but they also both love gaming. It can be lovely hearing them chat away to their friends especially if they are working together on a game.

By 2050, 30% of our jobs will have switched to automation. Many jobs will be in tech, where people are employed to program and take care of robots. The children that have been able to live with a balance of tech and other activities, and have an interest in tech, brought up on things like Minecraft, coding, collaborative gaming etc are going to have such an advantage.

Oh God, not this again.

Swiping a screen on a game console or phone does nothing, nothing, nothing to make you more expert with computers.

Using the bare-bones computers that were common decades ago WAS genuinely educational. Because typing strings of letters and numbers into the enormous clunky box to make it "do things" was so hard that you genuinely needed practice to get expert at it, and because the device was so simple, using it was an educational process in itself--it allowed you to "peek under the hood" and get a sense of how a computer worked.

Whereas, today? The whole "point" of today's ultra-sophisticated devices is that they are so beautifully designed that they are basically "intuitive" to use, and using them does not require any knowledge of how they work, nor does it teach you anything about how they work. In technological terms, they are what is known as a "black box." You can play with it for a million years, and it will not teach you how a computer works.

And because they are so simple to use, growing up with a particular interface does not give you any particular advantage with it, as any novice will quickly catch up with you.

Plus the interfaces that are currently being used will all be obsolete in the near future, rendering "practice" completely pointless.

If parents want their kids to learn how computers work, they need to put them into coding classes and get them devices like a Raspberry Pi (neither of which any sensible person has any objection to). Not play Minecraft.

The people who know the most about computers are the most aware of this, which is why Silicon Valley tech billionaires are notorious for limiting technology very strictly with their own kids (while making a fortune from selling technology to other people's kids).

My point is, by the way, not that "gaming is the end of the world" but that parents should set strict limits, rather than deluding themselves into believing that their kids are learning something by playing games.

If parents can just be honest about the fact that "this is a a fun if addictive activity" they are more likely to regulate use. The moment we start kidding ourselves that "The kids are learning how computers work when they game!" it becomes tempting to just leave them on it for hours.

And if a kid has a particularly addictive personality regarding tech, I would fully support the parent's right to say no and refuse to buy one altogether. Reasonable limits work well for some kids, but result in constant arguments with other kids.

Buy the console, then play on yourself all the time, so he never gets a turn. That'll learn him to ask for things.

Oh and yes, some games are absolutely designed to be addictive.

Really? Well, fuck me, who would thunk it? Hold the front page - some games are designed to be addictive, apparently. Here we were thinking that game designers tried to make games that people would quickly find boring and switch off. Mumsnet comes up with another earth-shattering insight.

Erm, @Badlad, if you'd bothered to read my previous posts, I was responding to someone who actually asked if games were designed to be addictive, not coming up with an "earth shattering insight" myself.

@kokeshi123

Again, if you'd bothered to read anything I've ever put on Mumsnet, you'd see that I've previously said that gaming is a fun hobby, but I'm afraid you're wrong. Though gaming won't help in terms of content for future employmenf, the benefits it does have are good for many things. Minecraft is actually so beneficial, it's released an educational version that we use in schools and it has many purposes. Using computers isn't all about coding and people aren't deluding themselves by thinking kids are learning something when they game, because in many cases, they actually are. HTH.