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Original poster

Trans and third space?

558 replies

Teachtolive · 20/10/2018 12:05

This is by no means an anti trans thread. I am not anti trans. It could also be an extremely naive question so I apologise in advance if this is in any way offensive, it's not my intention. Would the use of third spaces not solve a lot of issues? So men's, women's and trans bathrooms, men's, women's and trans sporting events etc? Or if it wouldn't solve issues of safe spaces and biological advantages, why not?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 20/10/2018 17:11

I'm sorry you are disgusted easternedge.

As you know compassion works both ways.

Datun · 20/10/2018 17:13

Of course now you will trot out the tiny majority of twisted individuals who would exploit the situation without failing to realise or acknowledge that these people would find a way to abuse anyway.

Except the abuse of voyeurism and indecent exposure ceases to exist. And become state sanctioned instead. For the sake of a vanishingly small number of individuals who have gender dysphoria.

And since when did we write laws giving male abusers, misogynists and predators unfettered access to their female victims, to validate a handful of men?

Where's the logic? Seriously where?

Datun · 20/10/2018 17:17

Instead of being disgusted by women who want to maintain their boundaries easternedge, perhaps you can engage with the points raised?

Do you see a third space as being a good solution?

easternedge · 20/10/2018 17:17

State sanctioned? Unfettered access? Do you actually hear yourself?

Rebooting · 20/10/2018 17:18

You are exhaustingly ridiculous

Did you miss my question?

Define female. Don’t huff and puff and tell me I’m ridiculous and don’t have compassion. Tell me what your definition of female is.

Datun · 20/10/2018 17:19

Engage easternedge. Engage.

Do you think of that space is a good idea?

How do you counter the crime of voyeurism, if a voyeur can simply walk in.

Engage.

ginghamstarfish · 20/10/2018 17:19

Ideally yes, OP, a third space would be the answer but as PPs say the transwomen for the most part do not want this, they demand access to WOMENS spaces/sport/loos/changing rooms etc. Making everywhere 'unisex' is unfair to the majority of reasonable people who surely still want places such as toilets/changing rooms to stay single sex. But the majority do not seem to have any say in the way things are going, and in fact would appear to be largely unaware of the changes happening.

Datun · 20/10/2018 17:19

*third space

Bowlofbabelfish · 20/10/2018 17:20

they themselves are women

What a strange thing to say.

easternedge do you believe humans can change sex?

easternedge · 20/10/2018 17:22

No the third space is not a good option. Why on earth should a person living as a woman or indeed a man be forced into a third space... to be othered more than they already are?

There have been unisex toilets in a variety of places without trouble or concern for years.

Changing rooms have cubicles and are staffed.

See also swimming pools etc.

I have been attacked once. In the street. Broad daylight. Want single sex streets?

Would love to see some stats on how many trans women have attacked women in women only spaces. I'm guessing by the vitriol here it's very common? Look forward to that link.

SmileEachDay · 20/10/2018 17:23

Eastern

Dismissing concerns doesn’t help - do you not agree that women have good reason to not want male bodied people in some spaces?

easternedge · 20/10/2018 17:25

No you can't change sex.

Gender is a spectrum and is largely learned and performative.

Do you believe that life is as homogeneous as you imply and there isn't a vast array of hormonal and biological differences within the term man and woman?

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 20/10/2018 17:25

Why on earth should a person living as a woman or indeed a man be forced into a third space... to be othered more than they already are?

They are not forced into third space, the have the option of using ones segregated by sex.

  1. you object to a third space but you are fine with 99% being forced In to unisex spaces?
SmileEachDay · 20/10/2018 17:25

Here you go Eastern

helpful link

JacquesHammer · 20/10/2018 17:26

Ok easternedge two examples very pertinent to me.

I play contact sport. Why should I have to say pay against someone with a man’s physiology when for years we have worked to get a space for ourselves because playing against men isn’t safe?

Two. In a support discussion surrounding miscarriage I was harried because by discussing my uterus I was excluding transwomen.

SmileEachDay · 20/10/2018 17:27

That’s shit Jacques Angry

easternedge · 20/10/2018 17:28

If I am dismissing concerns then so are you surely? Are you not dismissing the concerns of the trans community?

As a woman I have concerns in a variety of spaces most of which are unisex anyway... the street, a bar, the park, the train ...

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 20/10/2018 17:29

Are you not dismissing the concerns of the trans community?

No we are disagreeing with them, but fully understand them.

Datun · 20/10/2018 17:30

Why do you think being a man is being othered? You have a very low opinion of men.

Sex segregation isn't othering! It's acknowledging two sexes.

Changing rooms have cubicles and are staffed.

See also swimming pools etc.

I have been attacked once. In the street.

^^ and there's the cognitive dissonance, right there. Why would anywhere have to be staffed? If there was no problem. And why mention being attacked, if there is no problem?

You're saying places are staffed so you should be safe, why? and you've been attacked in broad daylight and are somehow trying to say that in that case, being in the vulnerable position with your clothes off is the same risk!

It's nonsense.

Linguistic jibber jabber

SmileEachDay · 20/10/2018 17:30

How do you define female, Eastern?

I’m not, actually. The trans identifying men I know personally are not in favour of this self ID lunacy. It’s ripe for exploitation and is as bad for transsexuals as it is for women.

whatifido · 20/10/2018 17:30

East how is it fair on those religions where single sex provisions are imperative? Are you suggesting they stay in the house and never use public facilities again?
Also a large minority of trans prisoners have been convicted for sexual offences, do you support them being housed in women's prisons?

Datun · 20/10/2018 17:31

98% of sexually violent crime is committed by men. Doesn't matter how they identify.

That's why we segregate by sex when women are in a vulnerable position.

It's really not complicated.

Original poster
Teachtolive · 20/10/2018 17:32

*A biological female

There is no other type of female.*

As opposed to the idea of those who are themselves as female in spite of being born male, but of course you knew that, for some reason you thought you'd look great by making a statement.

OP posts:
JacquesHammer · 20/10/2018 17:32

SmileEachDay

It wasn’t pleasant. But then TRAs aren’t are they?

It amazes me given they clearly hate women so much, they’re so desperate to “be” one.

SmileEachDay · 20/10/2018 17:33

who are themselves as female in spite of being born male

Do you want to have a go at defining female?