Trans and third space?

[Teachtolive]

This is by no means an anti trans thread. I am not anti trans. It could also be an extremely naive question so I apologise in advance if this is in any way offensive, it's not my intention. Would the use of third spaces not solve a lot of issues? So men's, women's and trans bathrooms, men's, women's and trans sporting events etc? Or if it wouldn't solve issues of safe spaces and biological advantages, why not?

The reason why they shouldn't use the gents is because they are not gents.

You may not believe that, but in general they do. And that warrants consideration as a basic tenet of respect.

We're going round in circles.

Men who identify as women are still men, Rat. I can respect someone without having to believe things that aren't true.

Yes Prawn, but respect means not automatically giving your opinion more weight than theirs. And frankly you're not giving that opinion any respect at all when you say trans women should simply use the men's.

I am certain unisex toilets won’t take off. As soon as men realise women are peeing and doing their hair and makeup in THEIR loos then they will be listened to.

Just like when women went to the men’s swim session and pretended to ‘identify’ as men in protest it made the news.

When men say it’s not ok, and they will, it will stop.

My opinion holds more weight than theirs because they are trying to insist that I give up my single sex spaces when they have perfectly good spaces of their own.

That's a land grab, an expression of dominance, and I resent rather than respect it. I'll respect their presentation and name but they need to use the facilities that correspond to their sex.

The reason why they shouldn't use the gents is because they are not gents.

They are though. They won't need the sanitary bins, have morning sickness in the toilets, suffer a miscarriage, change or purchase sanitary protection, etc.

Why should women increase their risk of assault (and have it minimised) but also relinquish their privacy and dignity to validate a small number of men's gender identity?

The answer is no. No-one wants it.

And yes it's going round in circles. I've said what I want to.

What drives me crazy is that trans women will never actually get what they want. The moment they set foot in a women's only space, their presence renders this spaces unisex. They can never be in a women's only space, as women will stop using or behave differently in that space because it is now unisex.

So trans women have the options of :-

1. Continue to use men's spaces (as it matches their biological sex)

1. Push into women's spaces which from this point on will become unisex spaces , with upset and angry women who don't want to be in an unisex space (surveys suggest only 18% of people support sex self ID, so most if not all women do not want men or trans women in their spaces.

1. Accept women are human being who are allowed their own sex segregated spaces for privacy and safety reasons and use a third space. Either unisex or for trans people only, whatever they wish.

Choosing option 2 is saying that women have no human rights and are not entitled to safety or privacy. People who ignore women's rights and boundaries are not safe to be around and are not people we would EVER wish to share women's space with.

Yes Prawn, but respect means not automatically giving your opinion more weight than theirs.

Do you personally extend this courtesy to everyone whose opinion you don't share, Rat? Because not seeing much of it here.