To ask what you’d do if single, childless and likely to stay that way?

[muddywatersedge]

Aged 38.

freeze their speed

I quite like a bit of speed on a Saturday night.

If an individual can give you an account of substance misuse and protest a Denial they don’t warrant an Airway, Breathing, Circulation, Disability, and Exposure assessment
As they are clearly breathing and receptive,are processing & responding

The assessment youre quoting is for critically ill or significant deterioration.

It isn’t routinely used to elicit a clinical history or drug misuse

Def a student
1st yr maybe year 2 at a push

Just because I don't personally understand choosing to be childless I don't think it's the wrong choice.

Well... you do. You think it's 'unnatural'. You think that women who choose not to have children must be lying to themselves as well as everyone else, and that it's 'not the normal life pathway'. Are you on the wind-up?

Studies showing women without children are happier are convoluted at best.

For example
positivepsychologyprogram.com/parenthood-paradox/

Concludes
Because as emotionally taxing as having children may be, it has also proven to be a great source – if not the most powerful source – of life satisfaction, self-esteem and meaning, especially for women as emotionally taxing as having children may be, it has also proven to be a great source – if not the most powerful source – of life satisfaction, self-esteem and meaning, especially for women

It's called the abcde assessment which is one of many we do and it's done to keep people safe from drug interactions and overdoses and most patients are not even aware it's being done on them.

This is bollocks. The ABCDE assessment is totally inappropriate the circumstances you’re describing. I actually was a doctor. I reckon you just watch House.

@Leobynature

The site you've linked to looks a bit 'convoluted' to me!

Anyway, I'm not sure 'studies' are helpful because we're not comparing like with like. The childfree are often - certainly not always - different in outlook and lifestyle from parents. So it's not like we can do a real scientific study controlling for everything other than parenthood. If people choose to have children, chances are it will make them happier. If people choose not to, then having children probably would not make them happier. Let's just say people can be happy - and unhappy - with or without children.

People change their minds all the time

Right.

What if the long gone OP decided to have a baby because 'time is running out' and then after the baby was born changed her mind and decided motherhood wasn't for her? What then?

As you say, people change their minds all the time....

So mumto2 you’ve yet again shown your complete lack of knowledge by citing a wholly inappropriate assessment.As I said ABCDE Assessment is used to assess critically ill or significant deterioration
And you’ve been called on it,twice. Love purpledaisies you just watch house quip

Reassuring to think posters on mn get their medical knowledge from holby,diagnosis murder and house

Can people post direct links to all these so called studies then
Because a study in 2016 will be contradicted with another newer study in 2018 etc so always go by the newest medical journal

Well that's OK you don't have to believe any of it

Because obvs your opinion trumps meta analysis of population level studies

For example

epc2014.princeton.edu/papers/140098

Summary here - obvs as it's a 2016 example it must be inaccurate

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/many-parents-will-say-kids-made-them-happier-they-re-probably-lying-a7124851.html

"In research that will published in the American Journal of Sociology, Jennifer Glass of the University of Texas, Robin Simon of Wake Forest University and Matthew Andersson of Baylor University looked at an expansive data set from 22 European and English-speaking countries to find out how and why parents and non-parents in individual countries rate their happiness.

"The cultural stories about parenthood are that it's wonderful, children are great, it's the best thing that happens to us. So why do we actually see these gaps? That's what motivated the research," says Glass.

The key to their findings is that not every country experiences a "parenting happiness gap" like the United States does. On average, an American parent reports being 12 percent unhappier than a non-parent in America the biggest gap in the 22 countries the researchers looked at, followed distantly by Ireland. In 12 other countries, non-parents also described themselves as happier than parents. However, in eight countries Portugal, Hungary, Spain, Norway, Sweden, Finland, France and Russia -- parents actually reported being happier than non-parents.Jennifer Glass of the University of Texas, Robin Simon of Wake Forest University and Matthew Andersson of Baylor University looked at an expansive data set from 22 European and English-speaking countries to find out how and why parents and non-parents in individual countries rate their happiness.

But it's only studies of 22 OECD countries so must be wrong - because people in your line of work lie

And it's only consistent with earlier research as well

i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/88842957/The-parent-trap-Why-child-free-people-are-happier

"A 2015 report published in American journal Demography found that the effect of a new baby on a person's life in the first year is worse than divorce, unemployment and even the death of a partner.”

"A YouGov survey conducted last year found that one in five German mothers regretted parenthood, with 44 per cent saying parenthood had a negative impact on their professional careers.”

I am someone that desperately wants children, I am not anti having children, the fact I can't have children has been a source of deep depression - but I'm not so self centred as to believe anyone who doesn't share my feelings must be lying

people do weigh up if they should have a baby or not it's called... abortion and having the right to choose

They decide whether to have a baby or not. It's not the norm for people to question why they want a baby or to assess whether they think they would make a good parent. Simply wanting a baby is usually enough because it's 'natural’.

Do you routinely get challenged as to why you decided to have children, and why you thought you would make a good parent?

If the op was happy? why even ask if it's ok. It would just be ok with her, no need to question it!

I may have missed this, but I don't think OP hasn't said whether she is childfree by choice or childless by circumstance...?

She may be childfree by choice and questioning, she may be childless by circumstance and weighing things up

But you're not talking about the OP. You're saying everyone on this thread who has chosen not to have children must be lying or in denial

What course are you studying mumto2?
I’d guess you’re second year given it’s Oct and new term recently started
And do you watch House?ive never seen it myself

People change their minds all the time but for op she doesn't have another decade to decide to try for a baby or not

You can't send a baby back if you change your mind about having children

If you change your mind about having a child after your fertile window has passed, you can still explore alternate routes to parenthood. The only person who suffers from the regret is you

If you change your mind about having a child after having children, then your children are the ones who'll suffer

When you decided to have kids,how did you know you wouldn't change your mind further down the line?

Thanks for linking the studies. I am still not convinced by these. I am wondering why people need to prove that you are happier without children ? I.e it’s in those with power best interest to prove that we are better without children to control the population . And for every study that proves the above there is a study stating otherwise.

One can never argue whether someone will be happier with or without children, that’s personal and down to the individual. It’s also unethical to speak about children in this way. They are not things or possessions! They are our future whether you choose to have them or not. When you are old someone else’s child will provide the services you need. Children whether your own or others should be valued as important member of society. The western attitude towards them that they are hard work, costly and a burden is unfair and unkind. It’s ok if a woman chooses not to have children but she should not berate women who do and visa versa.

Also language such as childless and child free should not be used. Women are not less than because they do not have children. And the definition of free means to control, confine it imprison. My baby does need me at this time of her life however she does not make me unhappy. She is a gift.

Sorry the definition of free means to not be controlled, confined or imprisoned.

Not all women see their children as gifts or positively
Maternal mental health,social circumstances,impact upon how one feels
All my children were planned and no I didn’t feel every day that motherhood is a gift.some days with new born I was unhappy,tired and resentful. I didn’t experience constant euphoria

And the definition of free means to control, confine it imprison. My baby does need me at this time of her life however she does not make me unhappy. She is a gift.

But presumably you chose to have that child in the expectation that it would make you happy and enrich your life?

For those of us who consider ourselves childfree, a child would not be a 'gift'. It would be a burden we do not want, which is why we choose to be free of this potential burden.

And for every study that proves the above there is a study stating otherwise.

Do you have links to these studies?

My post sounds emotive and I guess I am. It’s bloody offensive for women to come on a website ‘for parents by parents’ And quote studies to suggest that you would be happier without children! Does anyone not see the irony

Also language such as childless and child free should not be used. Women are not less than because they do not have children. And the definition of free means to control, confine it imprison

I agree. But we don't have a word for someone who doesn't have children

You're a parent if you have a child
You're childless (not by choice) if you're not a parent but wanted to be one
You're childfree (by choice) if you're not a parent and actively chose that path

In a pronatalist society the language is defined by children or lack of

What would you call an adult who isn't a parent?

I'd love to use different language!

I would just call them an adult and specifically a woman without children

My post sounds emotive and I guess I am. It’s bloody offensive for women to come on a website ‘for parents by parents’ And quote studies to suggest that you would be happier without children! Does anyone not see the irony

I want to have children! I came into MN to join the conception forums. I then moved onto the infertility forums. And the miscarriage forums.

I am deeply unhappy at how having been able to have a child

But my point is that I'm not telling someone else that it's unnatural to not have a child

Or telling someone who chose not to have children that they must be lying!

Why does this bother you? You wanted a child and are happy that you have one

I wanted a child deeply and am very unhappy that we couldn't become parents

But I'm not stating that this means anyone else should or shouldn't have children

Or that at a societal level people who don't have children must all be lying or in denial about being happy with their choice

I've already posted the severe levels of depression amongst the involuntarily childless who suffer infertility. I'm not advocating against having children!

My post sounds emotive and I guess I am. It’s bloody offensive for women to come on a website ‘for parents by parents’ And quote studies to suggest that you would be happier without children!

How is that 'offensive'?

If you're secure in your own choices to have children, what does it matter if some mothers feel differently? I'm comfortable with my decision to be childfree, so it doesn't threaten me to hear that many women do not feel the same way.

I work in social services. I am well aware that not all parents see their children as gifts. I am just fed up how we talk about children being either the answer to all our prayers or a problem which will make your life hard and unhappy. You would not speak about other groups in society this way.

children being either the answer to all our prayers or a problem which will make your life hard and unhappy. You would not speak about other groups in society this way.

But as a childfree person I've made the choice not to create a child because I do not feel it is what I want from life. I know that for very many people, their children are a great source of joy and indeed I enjoy being around my sister's children and other children in my life (for a while!) I just chose not to have any of my own. How can I speak badly about someone who doesn't exist?

I work in social services. I am well aware that not all parents see their children as gifts. I am just fed up how we talk about children being either the answer to all our prayers or a problem which will make your life hard and unhappy. You would not speak about other groups in society this way.

I agree entirely

I wish that I didn't feel so utterly inadequate, lesser than and missing out on a huge life experience because I can't have children

I wish that I was happy with where we are

I hope that one day I will be

There has been PP that have more or less stated that children make you unhappy or have a unhappy marriage or skint or whatever. I have read the posts. And your children may not exist. But children as a group do.

I really sorry bananafish81 for your previous losses.