To ask what you’d do if single, childless and likely to stay that way?

[muddywatersedge]

Aged 38.

Moved on to putting my posts under the microscope! I'm not sure why @icedpurple. You're a single woman and you're happy. We have that in common. But as you said to me ''you my friend are not me'' and I tried to give the long gone OP advice that was appropriate for her. She didn't seem like a FWB was either the answer, or something she could conjure up easily. She seemed to have bigger questions to address. I wasn't judging anybody so not sure why my posts have been highlighted and put under the microscope. Tiz a bit weird. I'm not being judgemental or confrontational.

Ok, good luck.

Moved on to putting my posts under the microscope!

I'm not sure how responding to your posts constitutes 'putting them under the microscope'!

But as you said to me ''you my friend are not me''

Eh no... I never said that. You must be confusing me with a different poster.

BTW how many times have you said you were leaving this discussion?

Purple I must admit I would feel a bit harassed if I was linked.

Maybe best to leave it? Said nicely, not like an arsehole

Absolutely anything I wanted. Although I love my little lot.. It sounds like a dream

Absolutely anything I wanted. Although I love my little lot.. It sounds like a dream

That’s because it isn’t real. Could you do anything you wanted before you had your children?

Purple I must admit I would feel a bit harassed if I was linked.

I'm not sure how you can feel 'harassed' as a pseudonomous poster on a discussion you can leave at any time. Maybe don't make comments if you don't want people to respond to them?

Work in the travel industry and be some kind of instructor e.g. scuba/ski/tour guide. I’d work during peak season then travel off season. I’d also rent out my house in the UK to provide extra income.

I’d go places/join activities where I could meet other single people my age to hang out. I’d go to the gym more, visit galleries, good restaurants and bars. There’s so much to do and see.

Also if I wanted to have some kids in my life I’m sure my friends would be happy for me to babysit whenever. I’m sure there’s also men out there who would be happy to have a casual thing if I ever needed short term company!

I tried

I think the advantage of having dc is that they give your life purpose - not meaning, but purpose.

If I wasn’t going to have kids I would look for purpose that made me feel my time on this earth was worthwhile. Childfree friends of mine have found it with stellar careers, great relationships, volunteering, engaging with their community, travel, faith, hedonism.

No one right answer imo, depends on what is important to each person.

Relocate somewhere remote for a random job. And get a dog.

I think the advantage of having dc is that they give your life purpose - not meaning, but purpose.

It's jolly good for us infertiles who desperately wanted children but couldn't have them to know that our lives are missing purpose

If the pain of involuntary childlessness wasn't distressing enough, it's even more isolating when you're continually reminded of how inadequate our lives are.

I don’t solely derive my purpose from having kids,being a mum doesn’t define me

Nope banana - gave many examples of friends who have found purpose in other ways.

Our pronatalist society places motherhood as the worthy status and childfree / childless as deviant

How often do childless women hear the phrase 'you never know true love until you have a child'? See a recent AIBU thread where childless women were told by mothers that we shouldn't be upset by that because it was just a simple fact

The narrative of 'poor Jen' with the media's obsession with Jennifer Aniston's womb and where the defining question in any interview is whether she will have children or not

The fetishisation of celebrity pregnancies - just look at media coverage of Meghan and Pippa Middleton

The Queen said to Kate Winslet that motherhood was the most important job

Serena Williams famously said that giving birth would make her a 'real woman'

Indeed the very terms childless and childfree are defined by absence - the lack of children.

Being childless not by choice (whether through infertility or being childless by circumstance) is emotionally very different to being childfree by choice.

I agree with you banana, those views are really offensive and there’s a lot of them around.

@ bananafish81
I was waiting for someone to turn this into a divide between women who have children and women who can’t have children, with the latter being hard done by in society (which i appreciate they can be). In fact you argue this point on most of your posts.

You quoted fightthebear who stated her children gave her life purpose however she also gave many examples of how she would lead her life if she didn’t have children. In fact the narrative of the thread is what would you do if you were single and child free, almost all posters have given a positive answer on this.

You quoted fightthebear who stated her children gave her life purpose however she also gave many examples of how she would lead her life if she didn’t have children.

That's how I read her post too. She was building on the discussion about having 'meaning' in your life as a single and childfree woman, and she said that children do give your life a 'purpose', which is not the same thing. That sounds entirely inoffensive to me, especially as she went on to list a number of ways in which you can have a purpose to your life without having children.

That is what I meant. I also think some of my childfree friends make significant contributions to society in a way I don’t, as my energies are directed elsewhere.

Yep and I do apologise for that, I posted in haste and so please accept my apologies

This topic is quite front of mind as I've been ploughing through the large corpus of academic research on the psychological impact of infertility and involuntary childlessness - both for the book I'm writing about the emotional experience of infertility and pregnancy loss, but more immediately for a Guardian op-ed I'm writing about infertility and female identity

So I've spent the last few weeks very much immersed in viewpoints about how children define meaning and how for many women who are involuntarily childless (rather than child free by choice) as a result of infertility, this often results in life longer mental health issues.

I responded in haste to the first sentence which reflected many of the viewpoints reflected in the research, and didn't acknowledge the points made thereafter

I also think some of my childfree friends make significant contributions to society in a way I don’t, as my energies are directed elsewhere.

That's a lovely and really comforting way of putting it - thank you.

Thanks banana.

I think the advantage of having dc is that they give your life purpose - not meaning, but purpose
Wow. Your life before children may have lacked purpose, but mine certainly doesn't. I may be lonely but by god I've got purpose and meaning in my life.

Oh shit. I did the same. Sorry.

It just shows that we do feel the divisions between us and parents.

My life Prekids had buckets of purpose,kids didn’t give my empty life purpose. That’s a hallmark channel cliche

@Leighhalfpennysthigh this may or may not be of interest - just one of many many studies coming to similar conclusions

http://psychopathology.imedpub.com/procreation-how-others-perceive-those-who-can-not-or-will-not.php?aid=19271

Procreation: How Others Perceive those who Can not or will not

Results from numerous quantitative studies have indicated that voluntarily childless individuals were perceived more negatively than parents, including being perceived as more socially undesirable, less well adjusted, less likeable, and more psychologically disturbed. A qualitative study revealed that others perceive the childless as selfish, lonely in their old age, strange, weird, unstable, irresponsible, rejecting their natural desire to parent, and unfulfilled; attitudes that are likely easily observed by the voluntarily childless individuals.

Involuntarily childless couples may be stigmatized because others cannot visually observe the physical malfunctions that cause infertility. Thus, observers may have attributed all of the aforementioned negative stereotypes associated with voluntarily childlessness to a couple who actually desires offspring but are unable to give birth. In addition to attribution errors, the infertile have also been assumed to be physically dysfunctional. sexually dysfunctional. or deserving of barrenness according to various religious and cultural perspectives, which contributes to involuntarily childless couples experiencing feelings of inadequacy and shame

This study was conducted in 2017.

The authors observe that although the rate of childlessness continues to increase and become more normative

"a shift in perceptions of childlessness has not yet occurred. If society can achieve greater tolerance of diversity and better understanding of childlessness, potential increases in social acceptance of remaining childless may not only positively impact those who will not parent by choice, but also offer a more tolerant and supportive atmosphere for those who cannot conceive."

So if we feel that there's a divide between those that have kids and those that don't, the evidence suggests that we're not alone in feeling this way, as the attitudes towards childless women have a long way to go...