To ask what you’d do if single, childless and likely to stay that way?

[muddywatersedge]

Aged 38.

Still waiting for the op to update anyway as she didn't really explain too much and who knows she might update saying she decided to have a baby on her own. Joking.

But since it is not the normal life pathway to choose not to have children and at 38 she still has time to do so. I just wondered why

Being infertile is a different matter that's not a choice, unless you knowingly left it to late to conceive.

Agreed, care homes are awful places

It's human nature to lie and human nature to doubt when someone does something unnatural such as not have children.

it is not the normal life pathway to choose not to have children

You only have to read some of the threads on here to realise how many adult children pay scant attention to their parents, exclude them, resent them wanting to be involved in their DGCs lives etc.

"when someone does something unnatural such as not have children."

Well motherhood certainly hasn't given you any tact, empathy or understanding of issues outside of your immediate experience.

It's human nature to lie and human nature to doubt when someone does something unnatural such as not have children.

Did you really just write that?

mumto2babyboys yes people do change their minds about having children, but plenty don't. You tend to hear led about them because they are quietly and happily getting on with their lives.

@MojoMoon maybe... If we are the same person I'm sorry about the hurting knee, bashed it yesterday MTB in the glorious sunshine (with a group of friends, all 35+ and child free)

What this thread has shown is that it really isn't your relationship status or child status that defines if you are happy or not.

Feeling like you had some element of choice over the situation, or at least coming to terms with it and making the best of it, seems to lead to happy people.

*mumto2babyboys

Agreed, care homes are awful places*

You seem to have misunderstood me. I was trying to say that having children doesn't mean you won't end up in a care home and is no guarantee that you won't be neglected and lonely in old age.

My mum's home was great btw.

@SushiMonster

I completely agree. There is no argument to whether children make you happy or unhappy. It’s whether you all happy with your life choices or making the most out of your situation.

It's human nature to lie and human nature to doubt when someone does something unnatural such as not have children.

Unnatural?

Getting into discussions with strangers via the ethernet is 'unnatural'.

Flushing toilets and running water are 'unnatural'.

Modern medicine - including that IVF you keep going on about - is 'unnatural'.

And if we want to labour your point, you could say that having only 2 children, as opposed to constantly having children from the age of 15 to the age of 40 - is 'unnatural'.

So I am trained to not believe everything anyone says

OK - I'll bear that in mind the next time a mother, with deep rings around her eyes and a face that seems to have aged 10 years overnight, with a snotty nosed kid screaming in her ear, turns to me and says "Oh but it's SO worth it!"

Mumto2 I really hope you receive additional training & supervison to address your appalling prejudice & attitudes in working with people
You seem to suggest you work in health,I’d say you’re untrained and inexperienced with those beliefs
part of my job to doubt what patients say..So I am trained to not believe everything anyone says because shock horror patients do lie about drugs/alcohol/food/being abused
That’s a bombastic statement if ever I read one,and no that’s not your “job”
The clinical and personal subtleties you are lacking are
Empathy
Understanding an Individual personal narrative
Factors that impede judgement eg substances like alcohol, illicit drugs
Lies about abuse?what’s your understanding of information gathering and safeguarding?

You desperately need training and supervision about your career and “job”

But since it is not the normal life pathway to choose not to have children and at 38 she still has time to do so. I just wondered why

Because many of us look at mothers and think their life is shit. That's why.

Wonder no more.

It's human nature to lie and human nature to doubt when someone does something unnatural such as not have children

Well people sometimes lie, yes. But it's a very dim view of human nature to make that the default assumption. You might need to do that at work - it's not healthy to do it for the general population.

As to not having children being unnatural, it's hard to know where to begin. Human beings do a huge number of things which are unnatural. In fact when you pause to think about it, large parts of our daily lives are unnatural in comparison to non-human animals.

That said, not reproducing is in some circumstances part of the natural order. If you look at sociable mammals such as meerkats for example, it's common for certain individuals to breed more than others and some not to breed at all. (Look up "cooperative breeding" for more information on this.)

And remember, we are supposedly intelligent animals. We can just work out that not breeding is fine, given how crowded the planet is. Plus, evolution isn't teleological. So it's quite possible for some people naturally to not want children. It can be a part of their nature. We won't die out because of this. (And if you look at some of the thinking on the evolution of the menopause, it is often beneficial to have adults around who aren't fertile because of the benefits they can bring to a group).

So I don't think you have much idea of what constitutes natural or normal behaviour.

It's human nature to lie and human nature to doubt when someone does something unnatural such as not have children.

Studies show that in many many Western countries women who are childfree by choice are generally happier than women with children. Women with children are generally happier than women who are involuntarily childless

And people wonder why there's an us and them between people with children and people without when there's such judgement

Again pronatalist assumptions

How often are parents challenged as to why they chose to have children, and warned that they might end up regretting having children?

If someone isn't sure whether they want children or has any concerns about their ability to parent, it's surely more responsible NOT to have children, than to have them just because society tells you it's unnatural not to

How many fertile people really weigh up why they want children and whether they would make a good parent before they have a baby, vs people who are child free by choice deciding not to have a baby.

That said, not reproducing is in some circumstances part of the natural order

Also, in prehistoric societies - and even relatively 'modern' societies like Greece or Rome - rates of infanicide were very high, perhaps as high as 50% in some cultures. I guess this was 'natural' too?

Can people post direct links to all these so called studies then

Because a study in 2016 will be contradicted with another newer study in 2018 etc so always go by the newest medical journal

If the op was happy? why even ask if it's ok. It would just be ok with her, no need to question it!

@bananafish81

people do weigh up if they should have a baby or not it's called... abortion and having the right to choose

and using contraception to control family size

Of course, both contraception and abortion (at least the modern, safe varieties) are 'unnatural' too...

Mumto2 concentrate on your “job” get some supervision and work on your people skills
You keep dropping medical this & that in your posts,I presume you’re a student
Book a tutorial, do some additional book reading,push yourself to accept norms and behaviour out with your own immediate experiences & values

*people do weigh up if they should have a baby or not it's called... abortion and having the right to choose

and using contraception to control family size*

Good heavens......and you are a trained medical professional??????

and you are a trained medical professional??Definitely not trained,no.not with those attitudes
Habitually referencing medical this & that,def a student.1st yr or 2nd at most
You see trained staff don’t habitually drop it in conversation as they’re comfortable and confident in own ability

and you are a trained medical professional?? Definitely not trained,no.not with those attitudes

@LipstickHandbagCoffee

It's called the abcde assessment which is one of many we do and it's done to keep people safe from drug interactions and overdoses and most patients are not even aware it's being done on them.

If someone says they haven't taken anything but their stats show differently, wellif anyone working in healthcare took their word for it and didn't order a blood screen or ask them again or anyone with them, before giving them any meds, that patient could die.

How many prescription drug uses who mix sedatives with alcohol do you think own up to it?

And um don't take it so personally. Just because I don't personally understand choosing to be childless I don't think it's the wrong choice. It's just a different choice but if op was my friend I'd be saying the same thing. Think carefully before the fertile window closes forever.

Why do mn users always have to resort to insults 

And of course it's hard work having children and exhausting but it's also amazing.

You know when men get sterilised and they freeze their speed first. Why is that? It's incase they change their mind

People change their minds all the time but for op she doesn't have another decade to decide to try for a baby or not

You are wildly showing your inexperience & lack of clinical judgement with every post
You have some very unsavoury prejudices, and you can’t use fluff about frames of reference or assessment tool to cover your ineptitude