To ask what you’d do if single, childless and likely to stay that way?

[muddywatersedge]

Aged 38.

@purple that wasn't the question, but, yeah, I could

Lol to whomever mentioned Daniel Craig not looking like Daniel Craig anymore 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/daniel-craig-hands-dad-cradles-13456770.amp

This is what having a baby and lack of sleep does to even to best looking people

but obviously at their ages 48 and 50, they felt the very real desire to have another baby and go through ivf, no way did that just happen naturally otherwise she would have said so.

At 38 the op might not have to go through ivf and the heartache of ttc, but If she changes her mind about not having children in a few more years the only options are ivf and egg donation.

then she might be one of the ones wishing she had a baby on her own instead of waiting to meet someone

Wish op would update!

FWIW, I love my single/childfree friends more than no other. We are all in our 40s and they are like a breath of fresh air. Uncomplicated, fun and generous.
Concentrate on your family, work & activities you enjoy. Nurture friendships, travel loads and look after yourself.

Banana you've probably already come across Pfeffer's The Stork and The Syringe but if not, do look it up. It's about 25 years old now but is an important book and in part motivated by Pfeffer's personal experience.

My main point was just that at 38 op still has time to conceive

she doesn't have to remind childless, but in a few more years that option will be gone from her life unless she uses an egg donor and ivf

People change their minds. Like I mentions they get sterilised then regret and get it reversed.

But she won't be able to change her mind about having children in a few more years so it is a major thing she should consider

All the places to travel to... they will still be there for the rest of her life she can visit them anytime single or not,
but the option of having a child or not, won't always be there
She will run out of time to choose

I am the same age, no kids of my own but a partner and stepson. I daydream about ditching them and:

Living with one or more other single women my age - I need company but find romantic relationships can be a bit much

Travelling and/or living abroad

Adopting or fostering - I could probably do this now but think it would be unfair on DSS. I would like a younger child to care for but not really up for pregnancy

Getting a dog (DSS is allergic)

Otherwise I would just do what I do now - lots of reading, films/Netflix, mumsnet, going out for dinner, and making art.

Without the art I might struggle to feel fulfilled tbh, even in my current life. Having a form of self expression - whether sports, music, art, dance, writing, cooking, building/fixing things - is so important when you don’t have kids, I think.

Excuse typos. Need coffee

It is interesting to hear people say they never felt the desire to have children though, changed my views for sure

*The fetishisation of celebrity pregnancies - just look at media coverage of Meghan and Pippa Middleton

The Queen said to Kate Winslet that motherhood was the most important job

Serena Williams famously said that giving birth would make her a 'real woman'*

Didn’t Meghan Markle say “we’re ready to join the (parents’) club”.

It is interesting to hear people say they never felt the desire to have children though, changed my views for sure

You seriously didn't know that there are some folks who have never had any desire for children until you read this discussion?

Thought they were lying.

Or had left it too late to choose anymore

that's just my personal experience, I myself felt the desire and I saw it happen to other couples who used to be party animals and said they weren't having kids.

Tbf I think it is quite unusual

given the rise in ivf here and people going abroad because their desire for a baby is so strong. Also most men desire children of their own eventually too

George Clooney for example, he changed his mind.

Men can easily change their mind and have a baby with someone younger but females simply do not have the option once their fertile years are over

*Thought they were lying.

Or had left it too late to choose anymore*

This is just SO typical!

Nobody can genuinely choose to be childfree - no, they're either in denial or 'left it too late'.

Heard it SO many times. Why are some parents so convinced their lifestyle is so desirable that anyone who doesn't want it is fibbing? Believe me (though you won't) I see my friends with kids and have absolutely no desire whatsoever for that life. It looks awful to me. They may think the same about my life, but I'm not going around saying anyone who has kids is secretly regretting it. I accept that different people want different things in life. Unlike some.

Tbf I think it is quite unusual

See above. You believe what you want to believe.

Men can easily change their mind and have a baby with someone younger

Well, no unless they are millionaire actors, most men can't 'easily' turn around and have a baby with a much younger woman, because your average man in his 50s really isn't a catch for most fertile young women, despite what they may like to think.

females simply do not have the option once their fertile years are over

Why do you keep banging on about this? We KNOW! There's not a woman out there who isn't fully aware that after 40 or so, her chances of getting pregnant are slim. We KNOW! And some of us just don't want it. Honestly.

Thought they were lying.

Or had left it too late to choose anymore

Fucksake. That's offensive to those who are childfree by choice and the involuntarily childless by circumstance - as though it's their fault they didn't meet the right person. Blame them for leaving it too late why don't you.

I'm involuntarily childless not by choice due to infertility but it's not beyond the wit of (wo)man to understand that people have different choices

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_childlessness

The no of people who are childfree by choice are on the rise for a whole host of reasons. Now you can educate yourself. HTH.

given the rise in ivf here and people going abroad because their desire for a baby is so strong. Also most men desire children of their own eventually too

Did you read the links I posted about how the desire for children isn't a genetic drive but shaped by pronatalist societal and cultural expectations that having children is the norm and not having children is deviant?

You know. Like you've shown precisely just now

I say this as someone who does desperately want my own children but can't have them

My sister has 2 young kids and I honestly think her lifestyle looks absolutely hellish. She’s sleep deprived to the point it’s making her ill, she spends her weekends ferrying them about to dance classes, parties and other things, she tidies the house and then it’s a tip again an hour later, she argues with her partner because they are so exhausted all the time and they hardly have any intimacy anymore, they are skint most of the time and struggle to ever afford a holiday, the kids can be lovely but can also be horrible little brats too. The list goes on!
My sister just cannot comprehend why I have zero interest in having a baby even though she moans to me every single day about how hard her life is now.
I get lots of sleep, have a career I love, a happy relationship with zero stress, money to save, nice holidays and a spotless house. I don’t feel unfulfilled as I spend my spare time doing things I’m passionate about. If I want to be around kids then I have my nieces to take out for the day. I have pets who give me unconditional love. It annoys me more than anything when people make out that women can’t be happy without kids, and that they’ll eventually become bitter and resentful in old age. It’s just not true!

Thanks @bananafish81 just off to work but will look a yogurt link later.

You link obviously!

@Gabilan it's sitting in the mahoosive piles of books about this subject on the 'to read' pile - it looks absolutely fascinating (as tbh are most of the books I have read!), thank you so much for the recommendation however, it's very thoughtful and a terrific shout!

I believe the statistics show that in Western society people are now having less children. I believe in China, the law has changed from one child, to allow 2 children. Before contraception women really didn't have much choice about having children and many were born and infant mortality was high, there were huge families. The difference today, is that there is a definite choice to have or not to have children. (Not including people who have medical issues who cannot have children). Therefore, some people choose to be child free. I know several people who don't have children and they are no lesser a person for not having children.

Thought they were lying

So if anyone presents you with information contrary to your world view you just assume they're lying? Well I'll give you points for arrogance and bigotry at least.

Probably work abroad tbh

"childfree" muddywaters, as opposed to "childless" - your not a jigsaw that's got a couple of pieces missing.

Enjoy and liv ein the moment and if you ever decide to have a child NEVER do it because you're worried you'll want someone to look after you in your old age!

That's what was once put to me (very clumsily)ie: "but a baby will be a future insurance policy for when you get old - or you'll have to go into a home."

Those were the actual words. Beggars Belief!

I have not read all the thread so forgive me if this has been mentioned:

there seems to be a misconception that if you are single and childless you want to spend you life wafting around a spotless trendy flat in splendid isolation or travelling to lands afar.

Speaking as a childless person, there are many obstacles to this - I still have to go to work like everyone else, meaning most of my life is no different, and I don't earn a huge amount so can't exactly swan off to Jamaica whenever the fancy takes me. My life is not an episode of Sex and the City.

Yes, I do have more time for hobbies and sleep than parents do, but it isn't the glamorous existence some are making out.

And also there comes a point when being alone is NOT GOOD. I will spend christmas alone, I have holidayed alone this year. Sometimes company would be nice.

@Gabilan

Not arrogance and bigotry in the slightest just part of my job to doubt what patients say. When assessing if they can consent to their own medical treatment they of course say yes they haven't taken any prescription medication or alcohol etc, but when assessing them... their pupils are dilated and they can't repeat back what you've just asked them to.

So I am trained to not believe everything anyone says because shock horror patients do lie about drugs/alcohol/food/being abused.

It's human nature to lie and human nature to doubt when someone does something unnatural such as not have children.

Typical mn user aren't you having to resort to insults, just because someone says they doubt that something else is true!

That's what was once put to me (very clumsily)ie: "but a baby will be a future insurance policy for when you get old - or you'll have to go into a home."

As any one who works in a care home will tell you care homes are full of people with children who hardly ever visit them.

My mother had dementia and spent the last three years of her life in a home. The home held regular meetings for residents' families but they were really poorly attended, five at the last one I went to and that in a home of over 30 residents.