To be judgy about screens at the table?

[PiperPublickOccurrences]

We're currently on holiday. Large family friendly resort, mix of families, couples, older people. Big, buffet style restaurant. Very relaxed vibe.

At dinner there was a large extended family at the next table, 5 adults and 4 preschool children. Every child had a phone or a tablet propped in front of them. None of the adults spoke to the children - including the baby who was at a push 8 months old. Children had plates of food put in front of them without a word and didn't take their eyes off the screen.

Aibu to find this all a bit depressing? I can just about understand using screens when it's absolutely essential that kids are quiet. But the restaurant is very informal with lots of kids around.

Aargh! Help! I’ve been blinded by the glare of all the best parenting medals on this thread! So so shiny!!

I would judge if the children had the tablets playing whilst they are eating their own food. I don't think mindless eating is good for anyone and watching TV/looking at a screen at the same time as eating allows for mindless eating.

However, after the children have eaten and are bored and as an adult on holiday you just want to enjoy your own meal and have a bit of adult conversation... ? I'd be less judgemental. Although mine were past that age by the time tablets came along so we have always had a ban on screens at the table as my DC were enjoyable company at the table by the time screens have become ubiquitous.

I wouldn’t judge a holiday situation. It’s the kids holiday too! I personally don’t allow screens at the table when eating, but on holiday we spent a fair amount of time sitting in the bar, kids on iPads/ DS/switch and DH and I reading a book. Relaxing holiday for all.

Capri If I had let my ASD toddler/ young child watch a screen at a table once or twice, I can promise you that I would have struggled like hell to stop him from doing so at every meal. Because saying that xx is ok once or twice meant, for him, it was ok all the time (ASD, rule based, black and white thinking etc). We wouod have had meltdowns at every meals after that. At home or anywhere else.
And fwiw, Dc1, who is NT, could have been just as hard work (you known the tantrums a toddler can have because they have to have no coat even. If it’s raining etc? He was and still is very strong willed)
So yes, even allowing screens once wouo have meant that saying no after would have been getting harder and harder.

I’m sure that most parents have experienced that. Saying yes once to something and then finding harder to say no the next time due to the tantrums. Because that’s how toddlers work.
And yes that also means screens. Perhaps even more so with screens due to their addictive effect that both children AND adults can feel.

Each to their own, as long as I can’t hear Peppa pig while I’m relaxing with my very large glass of wine

It seems posters inability to read and make inferences is linked to letting children use screens at the table.

I said clearly "I didn't say I knew what life is like for every family. I objected when posters say "you don't know what life is like". I know what my life is like"

I repeat - I don't know what life is like for everybody. Your situation may well be difficult and more challenging. Perhaps the issue with your child is your inability to read!

Every situation is different - but the OP clearly describes a situation we have all seen when a family in a laid back, family friendly restaurant totally avoids any interaction with their children.

All of you citing examples of extreme situations where you do use them - that is not what is being talked about and judging . Tired, frazzled parents who just need a break, we've all seen them and most of us would just smile.

This is a family failing to engage with any of their children throughout dinner children had plates of food put in front of them without a word. This can not be good for their mental health.

I have spent the last few years working out of lots of different children's centres and the refrain is constant: speech and language problems in children have exploded in recent times. It's not as simple as saying screens are causing it but it's very difficult not to see some sort of correlation there.

You can be defensive if you like, and yes TV can be educational, but it has been shown over and over again that there is just no substitute for human interaction. And many children are not getting enough of it.

Drives me nuts and sets a poor example for the future. I have a very ‘spirited’ 2yo and have to accept that because my child can’t sit still at a table for 45mins to an hour that a meal out is not the right activity for our family right now. I will not be shoving him in front of a screen for my convincince. Didn’t exist when I was a child and I am in my 20s.

Unless you were watching them the whole time throughout the meal how would you know they were constantly on screens? And if you were then that's more than strange.

no headphones- even worse

HeartKing i agrée with you.
But until ‘proper studies’ come out (and they will struggle due to the lobbying power of tech companies) proving that, people will carry on saying it’s ok.

Actually it’s also likely that we will see the same than with fruits and vegs. Everyone knowing that we shouod vegs, and at least 5 a day. But most people over estimating what they eat. And explaining that you can’t judge if their child isn’t eating their 5 a day because .
Meanwhile, those children will grow into adults who still wont eat a varied diet and enough vegetables which sets them up for some health issues later in life. Actually Esp if they have some SN and struggle to change any habits they might have (eg with ASD)

I don’t get why colouring in is acceptable to some people but tablets aren’t. Neither involve engaging with each other

It's the fact that screens (in general) adversely affect the way neural connections in the brain are formed and used.

Screens essentially shortcut the reward centres of the brain and give the user the dopamine hit of a reward without the effort of having to have done anything to deserve it*

Colouring, drawing, reading and jigsaws require the brain to have actually done something worthwhile to get the same hit.

Our brains simply haven't evolved as fast as technology and we have once again found a shortcut to get what we want with little effort. I agree it's the 'modern way' because unfortunately most people are pretty ignorant of these facts.

My DH is a professor of computer science, has worked in the tech space for nearly 30 years and won't let our small DCs anywhere near an iPad. The adverse effects on nearly every part of their brain development, particularly probl m solving, isn't worth the hour or so of peace it would bring.

• This is obviously a massive over simplification, but I'm sure you get the jist.

X post there - lots of studies have shown this...it's just an uncomfortable truth when it is so easy to sit your dc in front of an iPad at table,

This is a family failing to engage with any of their children throughout dinner children had plates of food put in front of them without a word. This can not be good for their mental health.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise you were in the restaurant along with the OP and watched them for the entire meal. Were they also failing to interact with them on the beach, at the pool, and around other areas of the hotel or did you restricted your staring at them to mealtimes only?

I bet you’ve had a pasting op but I agree with you. I’m sure people will have told you that this may well be the only screen time these children have had all year but I see kids everywhere who simply can’t wait without screen entertainment anymore and it’s sad. In the vast majority of cases children NEED a screen because they’ve become accustomed to it which is the parents fault.
And as for Sen I have a child with Sen and I’ve chosen to teach them to wait as it’s not useful to be overly reliant on screens and also not good for his social skills to have him sit at mealtimes etc absorbed in an iPad.
It is also virtually every child in restaurants, public transport, waiting areas who are on some kind of device and they don’t all have Sen. The art of conversation and just ‘being’ entertained by your own thoughts and surroundings has been completely lost.

Troublesome - interesting post.

Each to their own, as long as I can’t hear Peppa pig while I’m relaxing with my very large glass of wine

Exactly this.

Better screens (or books, or colouring) than running around screaming disturbing everyone else.

My ds used to read/colour when we went out (and later had a Nintendo DS console) and despite that still learnt to communicate and talk to people.

Anyway look around a restaurant and you'll see lots of adults on their phones. A while ago we were in a coffee shop and I looked around and said "what's wrong with this cafe" and DH didn't get it until I said that nobody was on a screen. One lady was reading a book, she was on her own. Everyone else was TALKING to each other! Really!

I do see the occasional interaction though - when the kid looks up from said appliance to proudly announce they've reached a new level on their game

In answer to your questions about my 'superior parenting' CarolDanvers my children are now 23, 2x21, 18 (autism/adhd) 16 x 2 and 14. We sadly don't get much opportunity to go out for dinner these days but certainly 2/3 Times during University holidays. However when they were 18, 16, 11 &. 9 we went out for Sunday lunch or evening meal at least once a week. They have all had iPhones/iPads for Xmas/birthdays since they were small.

And yes, if you want to say that my parenting is 'superior' (as is their fathers) because we actually parented instead of leaving it to a phone or iPad, then crack on. As others have said, this inability to communicate has exploded in recent years and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out why.

No one is asking parents to go back in time and ban screens, just moderate it and stop it at dinner time when there is a prime chance to actually speak to each other, teach manners, conversation and general social interaction and for kids who don't 'want to sit still' it's a prime time to teach how to cope with doing stuff you don't really want to do. Because that is one of life's most valuable skills.

There is a new series on BBC4 called There she goes about a family with a child with a learning disabiliy.
The judgy fuckers ( including those who because there child with sn can be taught table manner and conversation skills think all children can) should watch that because it might educate them about the difficulties some families are experiencing.

Yanbu. I have 2 very close in age and we take them out for dinner every couple of weeks. It really irritates me to see anyone with mobile phones or tablets at the dinner table. It is just not necessary. Dinner is for socialising. If your kids are likely to not want to sit there quietly then go at a quieter time when it doesn't matter. We go at 5:30/6pm so that there's hardly anyone in the restaurant.
They're not going to learn how to behave socially if they're not taught. And they can't be taught with a tablet IMO.

My child doesn't use an ipad by the way so I'm not defending the use for that reason. He makes noises, bangs and kicks and does a bit of hitting and spitting to keep himself calm.

Spikey I've got nothing but respect for parents dealing with children with SEN at any level.

But it's just not the same issue as a family ignoring all their children at the table and giving them their food without a word.

NT/SN children is irrelevant. I have bought up a Ds with Autismn (special school) with co morbid ADHD.
and 6 siblings.

Good for you. I’d have thought your vast parenting experience might have shown you that not all kids are the same, even ones that have ASD. As it is, I’ll take the guidance of my son’s occupational therapist, that the screen helps him cope with the sensory environment around him which would otherwise be over stimulating him. No doubt if he was flapping his arms and making Donald Duck noises to try and distract himself otherwise you’d have a comment to make on that too. Oh and his table manners are fine, as are his NT brother’s.

They have all had iPhones/iPads for Xmas/birthdays since they were small

Well they certainly have not as they weren’t widely available and/ or an affordable option twenty years ago. So you didn’t make use of a resource that wasn’t even actually available when your children were younger and this supposedly makes you a better parent? Sure