To avoid women who do not like women

[abacucat]

If another women thinks women in general are bitchy, gossipy and much prefer men as she thinks they are more straightforward, then no I am not going to want to talk to you or spend time with you. If you show contempt for women in general, why would I want to talk to you?

Hmm I get what you mean but when I was in my late teens/early 20's I did find myself hanging out with men more than women. Maybe due to having had issues with other women in my life in my teens (poor relationship with mother and bullied by 'friends' etc). I did find my friendships with men simpler and I come across to many women as standoffish as I'm quite introverted and not tactile at all due to my upbringing. My male friends accepted me with no questions. Hanging out with them was more fun to me then. As we got older and everyone got married it was harder to hang out with male friends (as much as I got on with their wives it's never the same) and after I had kids I started to renew some of my old friendships with my female friends that had fallen by the wayside a bit due to people moving etc etc. I now have a big group of girl friends who I love and I do appreciate female friendship again. I'm not misogynistic in any way!

internalised misogyny
Now I've heard everything.

A excellent example of the kind of woman to avoid if she really thinks this exists. Also very supportive of your fellow women.

A lot of people seem to have misunderstood what I said. I didn’t say all women were like that, I said it was a very dominant strain of female socialisation but not the only one. What a lot of people aren’t getting when they say ‘Well I’m not like that.’ Is that I know there are women who aren’t as I’m friends with them!

I can understand that some women manage to mainly avoid women like this, particularly if they start work highly qualified and don’t come through the ranks of lower skilled staff, plus if they’re in industries with fewer women like science or engineering.

However many women who are like that would never, ever admit it. I do think this thread is a perfect example of that type though. I mean, what sort of woman over the age of 23 sits around thinking about who likes who and what their opinion on someone else’s friendship circle is and how that’s going to affect how they treat them? This sort of shit holds women back, you don’t get men in board meetings talking about who they like and don’t like. It’s this sort of crap that labels women as emotional rather than pragmatic decision makers.

And I disagree with this quote because I didn’t say all women followed the stereotype for one thing, and for another there are plenty of women over 25 who ARE like this.

I'd say it's the people who think the things you've posted and base the assumption that they have nothing in common with ither women who have swallowed stereotypes whole! I don't think "women" as a class are like that at all! Some are, some aren't - most aren't once you're over 25...

None of my friends are super close to their mothers either - just normally close

This quote is a perfect example of what I talked about earlier. The type of woman who is so convinced she’s got womanhood right she won’t countenance there are different ways of doing it. Who are you to say what is normal and what is not? Just because it’s what you and your circle of friends do? It’s normal for you and your circle of friends, but for other people different amounts of closeness are normal and there’s nothing wrong with that. There is no uniform ‘normal’ for women and we shouldn’t be made to feel like there is.

I think women who conform to these stereotypes frequently don’t see themselves as these women anyway. Because they know the ‘rules’ for this type and follow them, the nastiness of transgressing is never aimed at them and they like to see themselves as mutually supportive and caring. Their attitude towards the nastiness to people who transgress is also on display in this thread, because they don’t see it as being nasty either. They see it as justified anger towards somebody who has slighted them by not doing womaning properly.

I had a brief look at that ‘Text me when you get home’ book. I could be wrong, but from the synopsis it seems like almost a handbook for this sort of womanhood and a justification of it being the right way to woman. It seems to be written and quoted mainly from this sort of woman from the inside of this sort of group and is concerned with saying how wonderful it is. It doesn’t seem to have much in there about what it’s like to be women outside these groups or what it feels like when these groups decide you’ve offended them and personally slighted them by not conforming to their idea of ‘normal’, ‘decent’ or ‘correct’ womaning is.

you don’t get men in board meetings talking about who they like and don’t like. It’s this sort of crap that labels women as emotional rather than pragmatic decision makers.

I clearly hang around the wrong crowd of men.

Ginger because most men spend most of their time in board meetings, and thats where they shoot the breeze

Men talk about exactly this kind of thing (along with a million and one other things) on Reddit. That seems a rather more similar forum to MN than a board meeting.

you don’t get men in board meetings talking about who they like and don’t like. It’s this sort of crap that labels women as emotional rather than pragmatic decision makers.

Are you for real?? You have some very peculiar ideas about women.

It can also stem from being bullied by huge bunches of girls at school and not forming any close friendships with them.If the bullying carries on through college years(or university)this can isolate a female and lead her to fear mixing with groups of women in case it happens again.
So don't judge people too quickly op.

This. It has taken me YEARS to get past the bullying at junior and all through senior school (all girls) and then by some at Uni. And subsequently in the workplace - two women (in two very different roles - the first was the director in my first ever job; the other was my line manager in my second job a few years later) behaved really badly towards me. One even ended up being fired for it. And now I realise my poor relationship with my mother won't have helped.

I've only just started making really really close bonds with women, and I'm in my 30s. It's taken me a long time to trust.

I don't care for your rather sweeping statement @abacucat. You know nothing of their history.

I’m female but I much prefer male sense of humour

What does that even mean? I had no idea the source of human humour was based in the genitals.

My experience as a woman with Aspergers was that bullies were pretty equal-opportunity. Probably the worst bullying I experienced at high school was a group of males. Worst workplace bullying is around 50/50.

I used to think I got on better with guys. Partly this was because I was a wee arse and loved male validation, partly it was because my DP and his mates were all geeky types and I was comparing them to more mainstream female behaviour which I didn't feel any affinity for.

I've also experienced supposedly having some great guy friends that rapidly lost all interest in being "friends" when I got a new boyfriend.

It's absolute nonsense that men are less bitchy or more straightforward. Society just doesn't judge men as being "bitchy" for displaying certain behaviours.

I probably wouldn't feel that comfortable in a group of women who were very into chat about appearances or nails or makeup or whatever, but nor would I feel comfortable in a very laddy group of blokes who talked about tits and football.

Nowadays I probably feel somewhat more comfortable with woman. As I have autism I feel like a complete alien most of the time unless I meet someone else quirky, but at least with women I've got the fact that I'm the same sex as them in common.

I absolutely bloody hate gender stereotypes. All this shit about girls are more mature, or naturally tidier, or can multi-task, or are better behaved. Sets my teeth on edge as none of it applies to me.

So anyone saying that they prefer men's company is basically just making a nice great big sweeping gender stereotype.

What gets me is how women here will post on a female forum that they don’t like women as much because they’re bitchy or backstabbing, and men aren’t like that. REALLY? Try going on a male forum and say men are bitchy and backstabbing, see how many replies you get before the first rape/death threat.

you don’t get men in board meetings talking about who they like and don’t like. It’s this sort of crap that labels women as emotional rather than pragmatic decision makers.

Sat on quite a few boards and strangely enough women in board meetings don't talk about that stuff either.

I remember reading something very insightful on the feminism board that made me think deeply about why in my teenage and young adult years I would have said I got on better with men.

I can't remember the posters name or find the post itself but she basically said that young women have a tendency to see themselves as Belle from Beauty and the Beast. In a town where people were small minded and gossips, she rose above all that because she was "special". That's how I honestly saw myself. I wasn't like the stereotypical bitchy girls obsessed with their appearance and silly pursuits, I was clever and ambitious and fitted in much better with the level headed, straight talking boys. I had little sympathy for "women's issues" as I thought that if women could just try harder to be more like the men and not get caught up in all this silly girly business then they too could succeed.

It's only as I have become older that I realise how utterly wrong I was. The fact is boys and men are kinder to women usually because they are attracted to them, otherwise I generally find women and men are equally kind, funny and bitchy as a class.

I work in a male dominated industry so have made very good male friends and spend manority of my time with men. Men aren't bitchy or backstabbing??? Ha if i could share a group whatsapp chat where old colleagues are absolutely shredded.

*majority

I think it's people who make a big play out of not liking their own sex who are the problem. Just happening to have mainly male friends should be considered neither here nor there.

I agree about trying to separate from the "lesser" group.

Sat on quite a few boards and strangely enough women in board meetings don't talk about that stuff either.

Yes, but much fewer of us get there. I’ve seen so many women’s careers stall as they’re seen as unable to make decisions objectively because they’re over involved in work friendship groups and the ‘I like her but I don’t like her’ bullshit which can be seen to cloud their judgement of what’s best for the business or organisation. I’ve had myself and managed otherwise good female managers who fell in to this trap and were left worse off in career terms as a result.

I really don’t understand it once past the age of 23 anyway. I have my friends and outside that unless someone is actively harming me I really don’t have an opinion even if they irritate me sometimes. Not everybody is everyone’s personal cup of tea, and treating someone in a shitty way because you ‘don’t like them’ is just nasty and childish. People who do it just need to grow up.

I’ve seen so many women’s careers stall as they’re seen as unable to make decisions objectively because they’re over involved in work friendship groups and the ‘I like her but I don’t like her’ bullshit which can be seen to cloud their judgement of what’s best for the business or organisation.

Ah, so that is why there are so few women on boards. I always wondered that and now I know it is because they get all emotional and can't make decisions objectively. I suppose that is why there are so few women in leadership roles in the military too - for god's sake they might get all invested in friendships and could end up invading the wrong country because they are all emotional.

Thanks so much for explaining that

Are you for real?? You have some very peculiar ideas about women.

Pallisers.
As I’ve said repeatedly it’s some women. Not all women. But they do tend to get the rest of us a bad name.

As if men made objective choices...

But they do tend to get the rest of us a bad name.

Why is that, though?

It seems that a few men don't give the rest of them a bad name.

I think this would all work out fine anyway...cause a women who doesn't like women isn't interested in you being around her. I am a women who generally can't be doing with other females. I find so many of the vapid and irritating. I work in a male dominated environment and it suits me perfectly. I don't have a lot of time for women and I wouldn't want you to want to talk to me...so it's no skin off my nose! Women are whinging martyrs...just read the GRA threads. I aint got time for that.

As someone who spend the majority of her 20s working in the fashion industry in an organisation that was probably 90% women, I love other women & do not recognise the frequent portrayal of them as jealous, power hungry bitches. Yes there a few but what about men & their egos!! I have some great male friends & love their banter but after working in an office as the only woman, men are just as bitchy & backstabbing.

I also think females form better bonds, it’s been harder to maintain my friendships with men as they’ve married & moved away.

If you don’t get on with 50% of the population then it’s probably you who’s the dick.

It’s internalised misogyny, very similar to internalised racism where a person from a minority/oppressed group seeks to align themselves with the dominant/powerful group. They work hard to be seen as ‘not like those others’ in order to gain favour and sometimes actively work against the interests of their group.

I believe this is true. I don’t think it’s the posters who say that they just happen to have more Male friends, like sport, don’t like girly things, can’t get small talk etc. I do think it’s the women I’ve come across far too often who do seem to want to put other women down. Women are not all bitchy or gossipy.

I think there are areas.regionally and groupings who seem to have more of a Male heirarchy and perhaps more women aligning themselves to that. I live in an area where it is very ‘traditional’ and not as many women have worked or gone to college compared to where I used to live. I’ve still made some great female friendships here, however I’ve been targeted a few times by other women here, they complained about silly things about me but not my DP, and they and DP have all laughed it off as women being bitches what do you expect?!

I expect women to not be so down on other women! Luckily I know most women aren’t.

@wrenika haha if you don’t like women then what are doing on mumsnet?!